Howdy yall,
wanted to introduce myself and throw out an idea for you guys (and gals) to contemplate and co-ordinate with me on...
i will be building a "corner" entertainment center soon and thought, 'why not integrate the entire front HT speaker compliment into the structure itself?'.
I'm new to speaker building (a virgin actually), but i do have some limited "audiophile" experience with my NAD amp and B&W 602's. 😉
as a result i want to keep the speaker builing itself simple...
ELF 1.5s? (built-in) for L, C, R
ELF 1.0 Rears? 1.5s? 😕
Now for the big question...
I am looking to build a small sub into the structure as well. i have a 100w Onkyo plate amp with variable cross and gain...
could someone suggest (or help me build/design) a 6.5-8" single or double sub to complement the above speakers.
i will have room in the triangular sides (below the tangbands) of 1.4 cf per side. *or* i could build an actual box into the whole lower section and vent back into the cornerof the room behind the entertainment center and port up along the wall (giving me a port length upto 72"!).
I now it seems like alot for a first timer, but i have the skills, the patience and the determination to make this work...oh ya, i, um have the tools too!
(never overlook the importance of tools ! 😉 )
Thanks everyone!
i know there are people here willing to help me start a new hobby (did i say addiction?).
😉
wanted to introduce myself and throw out an idea for you guys (and gals) to contemplate and co-ordinate with me on...
i will be building a "corner" entertainment center soon and thought, 'why not integrate the entire front HT speaker compliment into the structure itself?'.
I'm new to speaker building (a virgin actually), but i do have some limited "audiophile" experience with my NAD amp and B&W 602's. 😉
as a result i want to keep the speaker builing itself simple...
ELF 1.5s? (built-in) for L, C, R
ELF 1.0 Rears? 1.5s? 😕
Now for the big question...
I am looking to build a small sub into the structure as well. i have a 100w Onkyo plate amp with variable cross and gain...
could someone suggest (or help me build/design) a 6.5-8" single or double sub to complement the above speakers.
i will have room in the triangular sides (below the tangbands) of 1.4 cf per side. *or* i could build an actual box into the whole lower section and vent back into the cornerof the room behind the entertainment center and port up along the wall (giving me a port length upto 72"!).
I now it seems like alot for a first timer, but i have the skills, the patience and the determination to make this work...oh ya, i, um have the tools too!
(never overlook the importance of tools ! 😉 )
Thanks everyone!
i know there are people here willing to help me start a new hobby (did i say addiction?).
😉Attachments
corners can be bad for subs...but here goes...
1. your full ranges are firing out sideways it would more sense if they were not 90 deg with the respective walls but a migt more into the room.
2. one option is to build a corner horn sub. remember most large speakers are not sheilded so you would most probably have to stick to 2-3 6" shielded woofers. One option is to place the 3 wofoers side by side and fold the horn to emanate below the drivers. 3 x 6" = about 20" width that is big enough for a 28" TV.
3. with center L and R so close together you might not get a lot of stereo seperation. the sub below and center on top is fine but it might make sense to wall hand the L and R as well as the surrouds. an ELF 1.5 for these 4 channels can be made small enough to be wall hung.
1. your full ranges are firing out sideways it would more sense if they were not 90 deg with the respective walls but a migt more into the room.
2. one option is to build a corner horn sub. remember most large speakers are not sheilded so you would most probably have to stick to 2-3 6" shielded woofers. One option is to place the 3 wofoers side by side and fold the horn to emanate below the drivers. 3 x 6" = about 20" width that is big enough for a 28" TV.
3. with center L and R so close together you might not get a lot of stereo seperation. the sub below and center on top is fine but it might make sense to wall hand the L and R as well as the surrouds. an ELF 1.5 for these 4 channels can be made small enough to be wall hung.
thanks for both of the responses so far.
i like the idea of a small sub w/multiple drivers...could you suggest some specific drivers, or driver parameters i should look for in such a design....do all drivers run full range?
radial speakers sould interesting...concept seems like a logical one, but for now i want to keep it fairly simple (remember i'm still a rookie).
i realize the design i have submitted doesn't lend itself well to "audiophile" type of listening (not even close), but this is more of an experiment taking simple designs and applying them to everyday use in a home theater environment. ( besides, when i really want to "listen" to music i'll crank up the B&W's
in review,
1. stereo separation may not be good given the design.
-should i eleminate the center channel all together?
2.although the suggestion of hanging the speakers is a good one, i want to try and make this work.
-should i port them (including if the center channel if the above answer is no)? if so into the cabinet or out the front of the cabinet?
3.small multiple driver horn sub design.
software to model horn designs in a sub format? or a solid design someone may lend?
keep the ideas coming everyone. i really like what i hear so far...infact this would still be an idea if it weren't for you all.
i like the idea of a small sub w/multiple drivers...could you suggest some specific drivers, or driver parameters i should look for in such a design....do all drivers run full range?
radial speakers sould interesting...concept seems like a logical one, but for now i want to keep it fairly simple (remember i'm still a rookie).
i realize the design i have submitted doesn't lend itself well to "audiophile" type of listening (not even close), but this is more of an experiment taking simple designs and applying them to everyday use in a home theater environment. ( besides, when i really want to "listen" to music i'll crank up the B&W's
in review,
1. stereo separation may not be good given the design.
-should i eleminate the center channel all together?
2.although the suggestion of hanging the speakers is a good one, i want to try and make this work.
-should i port them (including if the center channel if the above answer is no)? if so into the cabinet or out the front of the cabinet?
3.small multiple driver horn sub design.
software to model horn designs in a sub format? or a solid design someone may lend?
keep the ideas coming everyone. i really like what i hear so far...infact this would still be an idea if it weren't for you all.
i'll suggest you to try the radial design for mids and highs. try to use the plastic bottle's necks as reflectors (coca-cola) (i'm trying it someday)
and horn-type speakers will have a nice design-effect.
(maybe i'll draw my vision someday also from this project)
and horn-type speakers will have a nice design-effect.
(maybe i'll draw my vision someday also from this project)
A big problem
If the TV is a CRT type, and most are, it will be affected by the magnetic fields produced by the speakers.
TV's use special shieded magnet speakers to avoid the problem.
Test how close you can get with a sample speaker. As the field intensifies, the CRT beam landing accuracy suffers, causing incorrect colours - or just a dirty look to them. When brought really close, the CRT's shadow-mask will become magnetised, and even after removing the field source, the discolouration will stay untill the TV is re-powered from cold, and the de-gaussing circuit activates. No permanent damage should be done, though bad cases take several cycles to fully restore.
If you do tests, be aware that the earth's magnetic field will add or subtract from the results, so do it with the final orientation in mind.
If the TV is a CRT type, and most are, it will be affected by the magnetic fields produced by the speakers.
TV's use special shieded magnet speakers to avoid the problem.
Test how close you can get with a sample speaker. As the field intensifies, the CRT beam landing accuracy suffers, causing incorrect colours - or just a dirty look to them. When brought really close, the CRT's shadow-mask will become magnetised, and even after removing the field source, the discolouration will stay untill the TV is re-powered from cold, and the de-gaussing circuit activates. No permanent damage should be done, though bad cases take several cycles to fully restore.
If you do tests, be aware that the earth's magnetic field will add or subtract from the results, so do it with the final orientation in mind.
dab3 said:
Using drivers in pairs for the sub can help you surmount the magnetic radiation problem affecting your CRT. If you mount the drivers magnet to magnet, the mag on one acts as the bucking magnet of the other -- you still want to get them as far from the TV as possible (perhaps mount the TV higher with CC below).
With the kind of budget that would entail ELFs you might consider a pr of the 8" subs from ApexJr (3rd item down). The bumped polepiece might get in the way of attaining maximum shielding (never hurts to set the TV on a thick piece of steel).
dave
dave-
those 8" subs look nice (and affordable).
they would be mounted approx 20" below the tv. would this be enough ditance? how thick a piece of steel would be appropriate?- (scrap yard is near by).
1/8 inch? 3/32?
although the design is not ideal...would 3x 6.5" drivers be approx equal to 2x 8" in spl and sq? it would definitely give me more distance between the tv and i could probably get them shielded. also, in the 3x6.5" idea, would there be any advantage to maybe a 2.5 way design to overlap the elf drivers a bit more- or maybe a 6.5 - 8 - 6.5 design?
i haven't found any good leads on a small sub (6.5-8") design i could adapt to my needs. if any one knows of (or sees one) please let me know. thanks.
i'm just wanting to have a good foundation here before i begin the construction process.
thanks again everyone!
those 8" subs look nice (and affordable).
they would be mounted approx 20" below the tv. would this be enough ditance? how thick a piece of steel would be appropriate?- (scrap yard is near by).
1/8 inch? 3/32?
although the design is not ideal...would 3x 6.5" drivers be approx equal to 2x 8" in spl and sq? it would definitely give me more distance between the tv and i could probably get them shielded. also, in the 3x6.5" idea, would there be any advantage to maybe a 2.5 way design to overlap the elf drivers a bit more- or maybe a 6.5 - 8 - 6.5 design?
i haven't found any good leads on a small sub (6.5-8") design i could adapt to my needs. if any one knows of (or sees one) please let me know. thanks.
i'm just wanting to have a good foundation here before i begin the construction process.
thanks again everyone!
I'd just build a 2 ft^3 box for a pr and design it so that the drivers can be magnet-to-magnet -- that should take care of most of the shielding problem. Then 20" should be more than enuff, but you can always have the steel as a back-up idea. Thicker that better.
dave
dave
20" should be enough
3x6.5" = 3 x 150cm2 x 6.5mm
2 x 8" = 2 x 200 cm2 x 8mm
assuming drivers are 6.5" sheilded Vifa and 8" M22 Vifa.
volume of air is about same. max SPL at 50Hz should be about same. I would suspect you can some decent bas with either set up although i suspect with corner loading you might want to drop the bass off so that you dont get boom (hence the earilier suggestion for a folded horn loading). There are plenty of designs in most 50s and 60s Sound Enginneer Handbooks usually with 10, 12, 15 and 18" drivers. Horns were popular then before high watt amps were common.
i'd stroungly suggest moving L and R channel as afar apart as possible. If you are stuck with having them on the tv cabinet then one way is using a deflector. A simple vane like deflector might be sufficient. in any case dont make the side 90 deg with the walls. you sound stage will smear with a lot of early reflections from the walls.
3x6.5" = 3 x 150cm2 x 6.5mm
2 x 8" = 2 x 200 cm2 x 8mm
assuming drivers are 6.5" sheilded Vifa and 8" M22 Vifa.
volume of air is about same. max SPL at 50Hz should be about same. I would suspect you can some decent bas with either set up although i suspect with corner loading you might want to drop the bass off so that you dont get boom (hence the earilier suggestion for a folded horn loading). There are plenty of designs in most 50s and 60s Sound Enginneer Handbooks usually with 10, 12, 15 and 18" drivers. Horns were popular then before high watt amps were common.
i'd stroungly suggest moving L and R channel as afar apart as possible. If you are stuck with having them on the tv cabinet then one way is using a deflector. A simple vane like deflector might be sufficient. in any case dont make the side 90 deg with the walls. you sound stage will smear with a lot of early reflections from the walls.
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