Hi all -
I was lucky enough to get an old pair of Genelec Triamp S45YA's (their very first model, sold only in Finland to the national radio broadcasting company) which is an "active version" of Yamaha NS-1000M. The amps were old and in need of maintenance, so I removed them and decided to turn the speakers back to passive NS-1000M's.
However, my plan had two challenges:
The speaker has a cabinet for the Genelec amp at the back, which is attached not only with screws in place but also with glue. Removing it would cause quite a bit of damage to the back of the speaker - plus the cabinet was kind of stylish in itself (see the picture):
so attaching the original crossover back into this would have resulted into cosmetic "carpenter work" too. Also, I was not able to find the original crossovers with L-pads for a reasonable price (with the cost of re-capping the price comes close to the new components).
I am aware of Troels Gravesen's redesigned crossover. However:
So I decided to build new crossovers based on the original crossover design. At least I know what I'm doing this way. Some aspects in doing it:
However: I would like to experiment with the circuit with some passive-crossover simulation software, such as WinISD - especially from the point of view of examining the impact of my different solutions for replacing the L-Pads with resistors only.
My problem: I have not been able to find the Thiele/Small parameters for the NS-1000M drivers (the tweeter JA0548A, the mid JA0803, the woofer JA3114). Could someone help me?
(I already checked that at least WinISD does not contain these in its database)
I was lucky enough to get an old pair of Genelec Triamp S45YA's (their very first model, sold only in Finland to the national radio broadcasting company) which is an "active version" of Yamaha NS-1000M. The amps were old and in need of maintenance, so I removed them and decided to turn the speakers back to passive NS-1000M's.
However, my plan had two challenges:
The speaker has a cabinet for the Genelec amp at the back, which is attached not only with screws in place but also with glue. Removing it would cause quite a bit of damage to the back of the speaker - plus the cabinet was kind of stylish in itself (see the picture):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
so attaching the original crossover back into this would have resulted into cosmetic "carpenter work" too. Also, I was not able to find the original crossovers with L-pads for a reasonable price (with the cost of re-capping the price comes close to the new components).
I am aware of Troels Gravesen's redesigned crossover. However:
- It's not cheap
- He had a hick-up in the schema of the original NS-1000 crossover (L-2 should be 2.3mH, not 2.2mH like he says)
- In his example, he had all the coils in the same plane (not in x-y-z -directions) - that was strange to me
So I decided to build new crossovers based on the original crossover design. At least I know what I'm doing this way. Some aspects in doing it:
- Troel was kind enough to provide the coil DCR's of the original crossover in his web-page. So I ordered new air cored coils for the mid and tweeter, and an iron cored coil for the bass with those values
- As I don't have extra L-pads, I plan to provide some convenient system of varying the attenuator resistances for the high and mid, without potentiometers (based on adding/removing resistors from the circuit in some nice manner)
- And of course I'll rewire the speakers too
However: I would like to experiment with the circuit with some passive-crossover simulation software, such as WinISD - especially from the point of view of examining the impact of my different solutions for replacing the L-Pads with resistors only.
My problem: I have not been able to find the Thiele/Small parameters for the NS-1000M drivers (the tweeter JA0548A, the mid JA0803, the woofer JA3114). Could someone help me?
(I already checked that at least WinISD does not contain these in its database)
So, WinISD is for the cabinet only.
Once you have the parts, and the cabinet, measure, simulate, build.
I use OmniMic +DATS to measure the electro acoustic parameters of each driver in the cabinet. I then import the FR and Zma files into XSim and design crossovers from that.
XSim free crossover designer - diyAudio
Best,
Erik
Once you have the parts, and the cabinet, measure, simulate, build.
I use OmniMic +DATS to measure the electro acoustic parameters of each driver in the cabinet. I then import the FR and Zma files into XSim and design crossovers from that.
XSim free crossover designer - diyAudio
Best,
Erik
You can't do anything with TS parameters, even if you had them. They are only needed for bass alignment, but your cab is fixed, so you can't change the tuning. Besides that I prefer Unibox to WinISD.
You want a crossover simulator. Find XSim, PCD or even Speaker Workshop and play. You have two choices: measure yourself, or use a measurement already done. In the Troels' page you can find FR measurements for the drivers in the box without crossover, and also impedance ones, and this is exactly what you need. Create the appropriate frd and zma files from the images using SPL Tools, and then calculate minimum phase before importing those files into the chosen crossover simulator. Last thing you need to do is to add some delay on mid and woofer as its voice coils are behind the tweeter one.
Too complicated? Then just buy the Troels' kit and be done. On paper it should be a very good crossover. IMHO I'd prefer a kit without super caps and wax coils as I think they only add price without real sound benefit, and the wax coils are also difficult to solder. I'd ask Jantzen if there is a possibility to have a cheaper kit, at least with the wax coils changed with normal coils.
Ralf
You want a crossover simulator. Find XSim, PCD or even Speaker Workshop and play. You have two choices: measure yourself, or use a measurement already done. In the Troels' page you can find FR measurements for the drivers in the box without crossover, and also impedance ones, and this is exactly what you need. Create the appropriate frd and zma files from the images using SPL Tools, and then calculate minimum phase before importing those files into the chosen crossover simulator. Last thing you need to do is to add some delay on mid and woofer as its voice coils are behind the tweeter one.
Too complicated? Then just buy the Troels' kit and be done. On paper it should be a very good crossover. IMHO I'd prefer a kit without super caps and wax coils as I think they only add price without real sound benefit, and the wax coils are also difficult to solder. I'd ask Jantzen if there is a possibility to have a cheaper kit, at least with the wax coils changed with normal coils.
Ralf
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