beyma 12ga50

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panos1

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Joined 2013
#1
hi..
i want to build a pair of 12 pa speakers...
i saw beyma 12ga50 wich is 12inch and has 102 db senseativity...
i saw it has a wide frequency range 70-16khz...
can i use these driver for pa?
they will play all kind of music and i mostly care about spl and not so much about sound quality...
 
#2
But music goes together with sound ( quality) !
If not ....!?!
Aside from that... ( no, it cannot ! )
Xmax=2mm and Fs=90 Hz means very little bass
But the 50 mm voice coil assembly assures a good power "suction"
With a subwoofer and EQ (for the treble, particularly ) it would produce a good performance, I guess, for PA ( it's what it is for...)
🙂
 
#5
First, which subwoofer ?
I intended a monster one 😀
😎
I also intend PA as a on the street venue - Walls ahead at almost 10 ft )?=or some trees :scratch:

The benefit of replicating bass source is that the output is summed_...not the same at treble region where angular...well, it's the same principle that applies to bass as the summing takes vectorial directionality :scratch:😕
Wait ! It's the same principle that would lead to abandon a whizzer(ered cone) because of the change of directivity -mechanically induced, moreither 🙄
And also the bad reproduction of the very highs is because of the large cone area / sound velocity / with frequency ( wave lenght ) in comparison with a dome or a piezo/comp. driver + horn - sort of some loss of energy being badly dissipated by the wrong driver
 
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#7
One cubo18 ( if it's the folded horn that I found searching for "cubo18 subwoofer") is not a monster, I guess. Maybe 4 X 10" long throw wooofers
would do better, also Car Audio types. If budget is in restraints, maybe the Fane is Ok ( for 70€ ) because to get a decent pair of classic 12"+1" tweeter+horn in enclosure it costs about 500 €.
But of course you are limited by the characteristics of the single driver, as GM pointed that simply adding a CP25 tweeter ( but that's about 90 € ! then you neet to "cross it over" 😱 )would raise the performance.
STill, 3 ways are my preferred and also worlwide 😎 way to listen to music.

You could still arrange at best the combination of a subwoofer and a FR, but I'm limited in choice by the very low power cones that I use to try at home, but yes they're light ! And choose a smaller cone - say, a 8", that'll perform well from 200 Hz or so.
Difficult eh ?!?
 
#8
Okay, no single driver is going to do bass, treble, and loud. The technology isn't (and won't ever be*) there.

So, we need to compromise.
How loud do you need to go?
How low do you want to go?
How much power do you have?
What cabinet size do you have to work with?

I'd argue for a small-ish satellite speaker, plus a subwoofer. I'd probably go for a coaxial 8".
Alternatively, the best sound-for-space package I've seen was a MTM with some 6" midbasses and a compression driver. No real low-frequency response, but a peaked tuning (like the Boominator) keeps the sound balanced.

Chris


*To do loud bass, you need lots of swept volume from the cone. This is very bad when you're trying to produce treble from the same cone - treble with wide dispersion needs a small radiating area, opposite to what bass needs.
 
#9
yes imean the folded horn...
it makes 126 db rms so i think it;s ok....
i have two 50 liter boxes tuned to 55hz and i made a simulation with the fane woofer at my box....
i have -2 db at 60 hz....
so i thin it's ok..
what do you think?
this is my boxes
 

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#10
chris661 said:
Okay, no single driver is going to do bass, treble, and loud. The technology isn't (and won't ever be*) there.
Click to expand...

Actually, it was available over a decade ago with the development of the +/- 2 dB 20-20 kHz Babb Lorelei with its uni-ball suspension, ultra long linear stroke 1"? VC in a 4th order BP chassis/cum waveguide capable of at least 400 W power handling to get THX mains reference performance [highest tested AFAIK before the project was sold off and ultimately shelved].

Don't have all the design details/specs anymore, but WRT cab design, an I.B. was a minuscule 1 ft^3! Considering the big gains in motor design in the last decade, I've no doubt that a longer stroke, higher power handling motor + surround could be made to reach 'FR' PA SPLs and over a much wider power response arc to boot as it was around 140 degs originally, so advancements in computer simming software could probably further optimize its grill/waveguide contour.

GM
 
#11
GM said:
Actually, it was available over a decade ago with the development of the +/- 2 dB 20-20 kHz Babb Lorelei with its uni-ball suspension, ultra long linear stroke 1"? VC in a 4th order BP chassis/cum waveguide capable of at least 400 W power handling to get THX mains reference performance [highest tested AFAIK before the project was sold off and ultimately shelved].



Don't have all the design details/specs anymore, but WRT cab design, an I.B. was a minuscule 1 ft^3! Considering the big gains in motor design in the last decade, I've no doubt that a longer stroke, higher power handling motor + surround could be made to reach 'FR' PA SPLs and over a much wider power response arc to boot as it was around 140 degs originally, so advancements in computer simming software could probably further optimize its grill/waveguide contour.



GM
Click to expand...



I searched a bit and found that DC Gold makes speakers based on Babb's design. Not exaxctly the Lorelei but their N7R looks interesting.
I didn't immediately find proper tech specs though.
 
#12
talaerts said:
I searched a bit and found that DC Gold makes speakers based on Babb's design. Not exaxctly the Lorelei but their N7R looks interesting.
I didn't immediately find proper tech specs though.
Click to expand...

From what I could dig up (may not be accurate):
As far as I can understand Babb Lorelei "did not believe" in TS parameters, and the original speakers did not have those specs properly stated anywhere.

The new DC Gold brand that took over from Babb sell these units mainly to boat installations and such, since they are water resistant. There is one guy at hometheatershack that got the N7R, but he never listed any measurements:
Build: DC Gold N7R Steel Enclosure - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

I think it's an interesting design, and they may very well be worth the price, but I'm not going to attempt any bullet biting based on belief and fairy tales.
I hope someone can share more information about these units.
 
#14
KaffiMann said:
Build: DC Gold N7R Steel Enclosure - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com
Click to expand...

Thanks for the build link, I missed that one.

Note that the N7R's description 'reads' ~ like a Lorelei, though at a higher efficiency, but looks more like a normal point source driver with a grill same as Babb's other designs Vs the Lorelei's vented compression driver with a grill same as his Dad's patented design plus its suspension is fundamentally different, presumably the main reason for the increased efficiency, so your guess is as good as mine as to how their performance compares.

Another difference is that the N7R can be repaired, while a damaged Lorelei would become a paperweight, though I’m guessing it would take far more abuse.

Neither do I know if Alan was able to achieve his performance goals before DC Gold was apparently forced to close its doors. That, or it chose to no longer sell retail as repeated attempts to contact them by me and others went unanswered, so finally concluded some years ago that it had become a ghost site.

I see it's a completely revised, much more current, site now though, so good to see they're back in business.

FWIW, I wish I had the budget to gamble on the N7R in the hopes that it’s at least as good a performer as the Lorelei and especially if it addressed what few shortcomings it had, which a bit of simple grill/waveguide tweaking and room damping would otherwise solve.

If so, then price wise I would consider it a major bargain compared to any ‘FR’ driver I’ve auditioned, not to mention most cone/dome multi-way speakers regardless of price, though disappointed it apparently has been ‘tightened’ up to a little narrower a frequency response.

That said, based on what’s currently popular with ‘FR’ aficionados, its overall accuracy would likely be too ‘dry’ for most, but for those of us who prefer the type of performance a good compression driven horn or even a waveguide loaded low Qts ‘FR’ driver can provide, but willing to sacrifice a bit of efficiency for wider, flat BW in a relatively small cab……….

All the following is IIRC since I currently have no access to all my specs, correspondence with Alan, so with failing memory, take it with ‘a grain of salt':

Alan was forced to sell his dad's business while still developing the Lorelei and continued it initially as a consultant? to DC Gold for its primary market [according to Alan], high end HT system designers/installers.

As such, he was primarily seeking an even wider/flatter power response, while the HIFI community [i.e., me and the few folks who saw its potential and accepted its ultimately Lowther pricing] wanted a much more focused one with a bit less strident/’sharp’ HF.

WRT T/S specs, that's a story unto itself and I don't have the patience to ‘two finger’ type out all of what I still remember, but suffice to say that he did ultimately publish them on JM's 'fullrangedriver.com' forum and shared quite a bit of its patented design with us and a bit more in private to me as well as sending me a prototype pair that I demo'ed at one of the Atlanta DIY Meets.

Note that at the time of the T/S debate, Babb's website listed T/S specs for his other designs, just the Lorelei's was absent. What he didn't ultimately reveal is how he derived them, otherwise we would have a 'foolproof' way to measure any compression horn driver’s T/S specs.

Its performance under so-so room conditions at my home and at the Meet’s location the night before was in a class by itself overall in IMNSHO and at least one other in attendance, easily outperforming any ‘FR’ driver I’d ever auditioned and Jim Griffin’s great bang/buck performer original large line arrays except for its ‘figure of 8’ response that he kept emphasizing along with being much cheaper [if its cab’s high ‘cost’ woodworking weren’t included].

Had the Loreleis had a better cab mounting with proper connections vs the banana connectors that its long throw LF vibrations was literally ‘spitting’ them out on DSOTM and similar, the performance disparity would have been much greater.

‘Wedged in’ between the confines of the LAs in a room location optimized for them, combined with all the surrounding speakers, tables full of stuff and the large seated, standing, ‘milling’ around, crowd during the Meet’s audition, they sounded really bad by pretty much anyone’s assessment due to its ‘sharp’ sibilance being highlighted by its super wide power response and all the reflections/absorptions it implies.

GM
 
#16
panos1 said:
i think dc gold speakers are hi-fi speakers...
i need some smpl for pa use.....
so i thik i will go with this speakers Fane Sovereign 12-250 TC - Thomann Greece
i have 2x300 watt 8 ohm class d amp available...
Click to expand...

Just make sure to break them in properly before giving them a good listen.
Do not know if this is in regards to all Fane drivers out there, but the pair of 8" I purchased last year had very stiff suspension, I still do not think they are fully broken in. Regret not putting them on some near fs break-in duty.
 
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