Hello,
I am a newbie to speaker building and have been doing some research online and this forum which have been helpful. I would like to build a 2 way speaker (A tweeter and a woofer) and get to grips with using crossovers.
I have selected the following:
DC160-8 6-1/2" Classic Woofer 8 Ohm - Dayton Audio
DC28F-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter 8 Ohm - Dayton Audio
I used an online calculator to workout the components for a 2,500 hz crossover point. Could someone please let me know if this looks like it will be sufficient/in the ball park?
I am a newbie to speaker building and have been doing some research online and this forum which have been helpful. I would like to build a 2 way speaker (A tweeter and a woofer) and get to grips with using crossovers.
I have selected the following:
DC160-8 6-1/2" Classic Woofer 8 Ohm - Dayton Audio
DC28F-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter 8 Ohm - Dayton Audio
I used an online calculator to workout the components for a 2,500 hz crossover point. Could someone please let me know if this looks like it will be sufficient/in the ball park?
Yes, probably ok around 2k5Hz. You'll want to bring the tweeter level down with resistors. You may want to tilt the woofer down extra to that, because your baffle will focus the mids and highs.
How deeply do you want to dive?
If you're just interested in getting half decent sound from a one time project, you can work with the driver's specs to build a box of the volume recommended and then use an extremely simple crossover like the one in the first thumbnail. 2 parts, not bad frequency response, within 6db of the ideal straight line.
(BTW... your driver choices almost perfectly duplicate the B652 basic bookshelf speaker from Dayton.)
If you want to go deeper, a few things will have to happen first...
Okay assuming you want to get into this just a bit more first look at the plots of your drivers in the second thumbnail. You can see that on their own, they're pretty well behaved, so not much needs to be done to get them playing well together. Thus you should expect a fairly simple crossover design.
The third thumbnail shows a little bit more advanced crossover that will do a respectable job for you. Before building you should spend a bit of time examining the circuit to understand what does what and why each part is there.
I've also included the .DXO files from XSim so you can load it up on your system and work with it.
One last bit of advice... Speakers are petty much a blunt instrument. You can spend a lot of time (and money) trying to iron out small rough spots but in the end, all you will get is a very inefficient crossover that probably won't sound much better than the most basic designs... Perfectionism is it's own punishment.
Good luck with your project.
If you're just interested in getting half decent sound from a one time project, you can work with the driver's specs to build a box of the volume recommended and then use an extremely simple crossover like the one in the first thumbnail. 2 parts, not bad frequency response, within 6db of the ideal straight line.
(BTW... your driver choices almost perfectly duplicate the B652 basic bookshelf speaker from Dayton.)
If you want to go deeper, a few things will have to happen first...
- You're going to need to study up a bit on how capacitors, coils and resistors behave in AC circuits. Without a basic theoretical understanding there are a ton of pitfalls you can land in and some of them will actually kill an amplifier. You can start that journey at ... ALL About Circuits
- You will also need to do some reading on basic crossover design. This isn't like playing with lego blocks. Crossovers are actually some pretty hard core AC filter designs that, while general in nature, can be very difficult to get right. (Google is your friend on this one....)
- You will need to download software for both cabinet design and crossover design. In the examples here I'm using XSim to show you various crossovers but you will also need a fair bit more software to do a respectable job.
- You're going to need some real patience with us "audiophile" types. The amount of sheer blather you will encounter in this community is enough to stall even the simplest of projects for several months while you try to sort out what matters and what doesn't. (And trust me, most of it doesn't)
Okay assuming you want to get into this just a bit more first look at the plots of your drivers in the second thumbnail. You can see that on their own, they're pretty well behaved, so not much needs to be done to get them playing well together. Thus you should expect a fairly simple crossover design.
The third thumbnail shows a little bit more advanced crossover that will do a respectable job for you. Before building you should spend a bit of time examining the circuit to understand what does what and why each part is there.
I've also included the .DXO files from XSim so you can load it up on your system and work with it.
One last bit of advice... Speakers are petty much a blunt instrument. You can spend a lot of time (and money) trying to iron out small rough spots but in the end, all you will get is a very inefficient crossover that probably won't sound much better than the most basic designs... Perfectionism is it's own punishment.
Good luck with your project.
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Hi and welcome.
I have built a 2-way and plublished all the simulation files here:
A Speaker Maker's Journey: The LM-1 Bookshelf Version
You may like to experiment with crossover design virtually, so why don't you take those files, delete the crossover and try your own? 🙂
Best,
E
I have built a 2-way and plublished all the simulation files here:
A Speaker Maker's Journey: The LM-1 Bookshelf Version
You may like to experiment with crossover design virtually, so why don't you take those files, delete the crossover and try your own? 🙂
Best,
E
Xtra0305 plan of 2500Hz and a 2nd order network is to be preferred at the minimum. It is not possible to know how well behaved the woofer is by looking at an .frd file.
Maybe make a stepped baffle?
It will make XO work easier. If you don't want to do advanced measurements, I think an educated guess based on other builds will still be better than no baffle step. If I had to guess, it would probably be around 20mm offset.
A lot of examples can be found in Troels projects: DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen
It will make XO work easier. If you don't want to do advanced measurements, I think an educated guess based on other builds will still be better than no baffle step. If I had to guess, it would probably be around 20mm offset.
A lot of examples can be found in Troels projects: DIY Loudspeaker Projects Troels Gravesen
Have a look here: Classix II - undefinition
The designer noted: "The crossover for this speaker is what I'd like to call a "flying squirrel." What I mean is that both drivers just barely reach into one another's frequency spectrum, so the crossover between the two is almost a stunt-like flying leap. With a lot of coaxing on my part, the end result comes across sounding pretty seamless, and very natural, if I may say so."
I don't think that the DC28F would make things easier.
I would simply build the Classix, if you want a good and predictable outcome. Using an online calculator in order to find the correct components don't work, moreover with the chosen combo.
A last note about XSim. I love XSim, I use it regularly, but it is a GIGA system: garbage in, garbage out. What I mean is that the quality of the outcome depends on what you are inputting. And when what you use are simply the infinite wall frd and zma files, your outcome is mostly plain wrong.
Ralf
The designer noted: "The crossover for this speaker is what I'd like to call a "flying squirrel." What I mean is that both drivers just barely reach into one another's frequency spectrum, so the crossover between the two is almost a stunt-like flying leap. With a lot of coaxing on my part, the end result comes across sounding pretty seamless, and very natural, if I may say so."
I don't think that the DC28F would make things easier.
I would simply build the Classix, if you want a good and predictable outcome. Using an online calculator in order to find the correct components don't work, moreover with the chosen combo.
A last note about XSim. I love XSim, I use it regularly, but it is a GIGA system: garbage in, garbage out. What I mean is that the quality of the outcome depends on what you are inputting. And when what you use are simply the infinite wall frd and zma files, your outcome is mostly plain wrong.
Ralf
Thank you all very much for your input. I wasn't expecting so much positive, constructive assistance. I am currently reading your post on crossovers @AllenB which has been a valuable resource in understanding more. @ Douglas Blake - Thank you for your Xsim examples and images, it has helped me conceptualise the two drivers. I will look at that textbook to learn more. While I would use a kit to build my first speaker set, I live in Australia and am finding it difficult to find the parts used in the kits unfortunately.
I share that pain. Some local stockists unfortunately are slugged with postage as we are. It's become viable to look overseas for products.
There have been a number of threads on the topic. Search 'Australia' in thread titles here, or start another, it's been a few years.
There have been a number of threads on the topic. Search 'Australia' in thread titles here, or start another, it's been a few years.
In the Classix crossover there are some parts that also here in EU will be hard to find: the 0.25 and 0.5 mH coils, and the 4R and 6R resistors. If those are what stops you from building the Classix, here are some tricks:
the 6R resistor can be obtained paralleling 2x 12R resistors (standard value),
the 4R resistor can be substituted by a 3R9 one, or by paralleling 2x 8R2 ones, the difference will be negligible,
the 0.5 mH coil can be substituted by a 0.47 mH one, the difference in FR will be unnoticeable,
the only tricky part is the 0.25 mH coil, as substituting it with a 0.27 mH one will show some difference in the FR, but the good news is that you can always remove some turns from an air core coils to arrive at the desired inductance. If this is the case, even if you have a 0.33 mH coil, ask here for assistance.
Ralf
A multimeter with C and L measurement capability helps. The absolute accuracy isn't vital, if you are doing comparison checks. For example, unwinding a coil from a known value. Here in the UK I have a pair of White Gold multimeters from Maplin. Something similar should be still available, hopefully even in Australia. Of course there are better for more money.
No worries. I'm always happy to help out.
I don't think kits are necessarily the way to go, unless you are more concerned with results than with learning. Both are acceptable ways to go, but they do take you down somewhat different roads.
Greetings from Melbourne
Did you ever proceed with this project, there are at least two proven projects with this combination of drivers. Happy to share details if you wish, Geoff
Did you ever proceed with this project, there are at least two proven projects with this combination of drivers. Happy to share details if you wish, Geoff