After reading Diyaudio for hours I decided build BIB (Bigger is Better) enclosure with a Fostex
FE166e. About 6 months ago that I'm using.
The problem is that I am unhappy with the outcome. While the sound is very crisp and pleasant the mid-bass response is disappointing. I auditioned in several rooms and can't improve performance enough.
The best result I got using a strong equalization (by software), but this makes the cone excursion too great for these fullrange with only 0.6mm of Xmax.
I determined to try to solve the problem. The two options that come to mind are:
a) Make a new enclosure for my FE166e (The Austin A166 are that I think could work well)
b) Put them in a small sealed enclosure and to complete the response of the mid-bass with two woofer (one per channel, like a S.E.Xy great speakers for S.E.X.).
With option a) I am afraid to get the same results as those with BIB and b) do not want to ruin the beauty with these speakers (efficiency and no crossings or phase changes, etc.)
Any ideas or suggestions? 😕
Do you think that I can get enough mid-bass output only with FE166e? (placed in a TL, Horn, or whatever)
Can the Austin A166 control cone excursion?
Thank in advance and sorry for my bad english.
Sergio Fontenla.
FE166e. About 6 months ago that I'm using.
The problem is that I am unhappy with the outcome. While the sound is very crisp and pleasant the mid-bass response is disappointing. I auditioned in several rooms and can't improve performance enough.
The best result I got using a strong equalization (by software), but this makes the cone excursion too great for these fullrange with only 0.6mm of Xmax.
I determined to try to solve the problem. The two options that come to mind are:
a) Make a new enclosure for my FE166e (The Austin A166 are that I think could work well)
b) Put them in a small sealed enclosure and to complete the response of the mid-bass with two woofer (one per channel, like a S.E.Xy great speakers for S.E.X.).
With option a) I am afraid to get the same results as those with BIB and b) do not want to ruin the beauty with these speakers (efficiency and no crossings or phase changes, etc.)
Any ideas or suggestions? 😕
Do you think that I can get enough mid-bass output only with FE166e? (placed in a TL, Horn, or whatever)
Can the Austin A166 control cone excursion?
Thank in advance and sorry for my bad english.
Sergio Fontenla.
Your English is fine Sergio.
The A166 is probably the horn with the most finese. I do note that another recent thread here, where someone bought A166, he is complaining about the midbass... i don't know, i've got A126.
With the FE166 we have, we are going to go the bottle head route. I already had boxes and woofers (only in need of assembly) so it is an easy experiment.
dave
The A166 is probably the horn with the most finese. I do note that another recent thread here, where someone bought A166, he is complaining about the midbass... i don't know, i've got A126.
With the FE166 we have, we are going to go the bottle head route. I already had boxes and woofers (only in need of assembly) so it is an easy experiment.
dave
I dont know about the 166 driver, but my Austin's with the 168ES are smooth top to bottom, and are flat to 40hz before they start to roll off. When turned up you still barely get any cone movement do to the horn loading of the driver, yet they make pretty big bass.
Ed
Ed
Sergio, the Austins are a big step up from the BiB's! I love the BiB's and they are great fun, but the Austin is close to perfect for a single driver BLH. Mr. Ed is right, the cone barely moves at all on the Austin (and really moves like crazy on my BiB).
If you are wondering why your BiB's sound like they do, check out this article: "Calculated Response of the Fostex FE-167E BIB Enclosure," last article on this page: General Speaker Related Articles
I want to keep building BiB's to find the "ultimate BiB' but I don't expect that it will be as good as the Austin.
If you are wondering why your BiB's sound like they do, check out this article: "Calculated Response of the Fostex FE-167E BIB Enclosure," last article on this page: General Speaker Related Articles
I want to keep building BiB's to find the "ultimate BiB' but I don't expect that it will be as good as the Austin.
To expand on what RJ said: A BIB is a very simple box that extracts a huge amount of bass out of a speaker. The trade-off is a lot of ripple to contend with (and i expect that, given a simple build) panels that have significant reradiation. The Austins are Ron's most advanced horns, and are about maximum finese. They won't go as low, but everywhere else they will be better. The box is inherently well braced.
dave
dave
Hello everyone!
It seems that could try the Austin A166, the comments have been quite positive
I have not decided yet.
Something I did not clarify in my first post is that my current BIB's I'm using with a DIY amplifier,
made with a pair of LM3886 using Rod Elliot's scheme
Perhaps it isn't the best?
If I try to make a sealed box (with the FE166e)
To complete the response, the woofers available to me are Selenium 10"or 15" (10WP3 and 15WP3)
10PW3
-------------------
Db 98
Fs 73 hz
Vas 29 L
Qts 0,66
Xmax 1,25 mm
15PW3
-------------------
Db 98
Fs 37 hz
Vas 274 L
Qts 0,61
Xmax 3 mm
It's the best I can get at these places with sufficient db (sensitivity) for not attenuate much the FE166e.
If these are not indicated could try to get some other on Internet, or directly make a Austin A166.
Perhaps I should not do these kinds of questions in the forum Fullrange. If so I apologize. Will try again in Multi-way.
Any opinion is welcome
Thank you very much to all.
Sergio Fontenla.
It seems that could try the Austin A166, the comments have been quite positive
I have not decided yet.
Something I did not clarify in my first post is that my current BIB's I'm using with a DIY amplifier,
made with a pair of LM3886 using Rod Elliot's scheme
Perhaps it isn't the best?
If I try to make a sealed box (with the FE166e)
To complete the response, the woofers available to me are Selenium 10"or 15" (10WP3 and 15WP3)
10PW3
-------------------
Db 98
Fs 73 hz
Vas 29 L
Qts 0,66
Xmax 1,25 mm
15PW3
-------------------
Db 98
Fs 37 hz
Vas 274 L
Qts 0,61
Xmax 3 mm
It's the best I can get at these places with sufficient db (sensitivity) for not attenuate much the FE166e.
If these are not indicated could try to get some other on Internet, or directly make a Austin A166.
Perhaps I should not do these kinds of questions in the forum Fullrange. If so I apologize. Will try again in Multi-way.
Any opinion is welcome
Thank you very much to all.
Sergio Fontenla.
Sergio; if time is not a factor, I'd personally be inclined to break in the Fostex drivers for at least 200hrs before installing, and live with the A166 for at least a couple of weeks before deciding how much assistance (if any ) they might need in the low frequencies.
Something else to keep in mind is that a full range high efficiency BLH as well designed as Ron's can be very revealing of differences amongst amplifier types. Some of us 🙂 can get as exercised discussing this synergy as the speakers themselves.
In my own case, it's low powered tube amps, (DHT such as 2A3, 300B) and triode connected pentodes such as SV83/EL34 that light my wick.
The last SS amp that I got really excited about was part of a very custom DIY system by Gary Pimm.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.pimmlabs.com/web/solid_state.htm
The Brits have an expression: "gobsmacked"
And I think the FR is a fine place to discuss this project
Hi there Dave ( Planet10): can "reradiation" be reduced by applying extensive bracing schemes to large unsupported panels in a BIB? ...Michael
Yes you can substantually reduce them, but you end up with a cabinet pretty much as complex to build as an A166.
dave
dave
As Chris stated, the amp speaker synergy is a large factor.
I have a 2.75 watt set amp that for some reason does not like the load placed on it by the Austins, it just got weak in the lower regions. My 6l6 40watt pp amp sound stunning with them, or vice versa, they are stunning with that amp. I have not tried them with an ss amp, but I do have an old Haffler in hiding....hmmm
Ed
I have a 2.75 watt set amp that for some reason does not like the load placed on it by the Austins, it just got weak in the lower regions. My 6l6 40watt pp amp sound stunning with them, or vice versa, they are stunning with that amp. I have not tried them with an ss amp, but I do have an old Haffler in hiding....hmmm
Ed
Hello everyone!
After thinking for some time I decided, I will go by the Austin A166. 😀
I read several threads where you talk about materials. And I understand that the baltic birch plywood is best for this type of horns. But, I can not get baltic birch plywood here and order it is very expensive. 😱
What I can get here is:
1) Plywood (Eucalyptus Grandis) (common, in about 9 layers)
2) MDF
3) OSB (Oriented strand board)
4) Particle board
What is the most appropriate? Maybe a mixture of any of this? 😕
Taking only these materials, I have the idea of strengthening the cabinet.
Is this possible / desirable? (See picture. Red you can see where I want to include reinforcements)
Any opinion is welcome.
Tnx. Sergio Fontenla.
After thinking for some time I decided, I will go by the Austin A166. 😀
I read several threads where you talk about materials. And I understand that the baltic birch plywood is best for this type of horns. But, I can not get baltic birch plywood here and order it is very expensive. 😱
What I can get here is:
1) Plywood (Eucalyptus Grandis) (common, in about 9 layers)
2) MDF
3) OSB (Oriented strand board)
4) Particle board
What is the most appropriate? Maybe a mixture of any of this? 😕
Taking only these materials, I have the idea of strengthening the cabinet.
Is this possible / desirable? (See picture. Red you can see where I want to include reinforcements)
Any opinion is welcome.
Tnx. Sergio Fontenla.
Attachments
Sergio,
You dont have to use Balitc Birch, but you want a good cabinet grade plywood that has many thin layers, instead of construction plywood that has thicker and fewer layers.
You can use birch or any other good plywood. Do you have anyone near that makes cabinets?
MDF will work but it will not have the tone of good plywood.
If you build it as designed you do not need any bracing. If you decide to add stifness layers they should be external to keep inside dimensions correct.
Ed
You dont have to use Balitc Birch, but you want a good cabinet grade plywood that has many thin layers, instead of construction plywood that has thicker and fewer layers.
You can use birch or any other good plywood. Do you have anyone near that makes cabinets?
MDF will work but it will not have the tone of good plywood.
If you build it as designed you do not need any bracing. If you decide to add stifness layers they should be external to keep inside dimensions correct.
Ed
Baltic Birch is often used as a generic term... here shop grade baltic birch is what we use because it is fairly cheap. I've been trying to change to using "quality multiply".
The Eucalyptus plywood should be just fine as long as it doesn't have lots of voids.
dave
while I'm no so optimistic that the 'lyptus Ply would be as void free as the BB, I'd wager it'd still be a sonic improvement over PB and certainly over MDF
(for Godness sakes, let's not open that can of hurt so soon again!)
re your bracing scheme proposed (in red) - they certainly needn't extend the full length of each fold to brace the panels - but if more than 100mm wide, consider cutting some holes
one area that you didn't indicate was the rear mouth, which could probably benefit from a narrow (8-mm or so) brace, angled to bisect the final flare
Last edited:
I think my best move is to get the best possible plywood.
MDF and PB are discarded.
Today I went to see the Eucalyptus Plywood offered by my local dealer.
It is very bad and useless. It's full of knots, and has only six layers.
I contact with suppliers in other cities to see what more they can offer me.
Whenever I get the news they reported.
The topic of bracing I leave for later, once I have the material.
Ed:
no, I have not one around to build cabinets.
Thanks for the help.
Sergio Fontenla.
MDF and PB are discarded.
Today I went to see the Eucalyptus Plywood offered by my local dealer.
It is very bad and useless. It's full of knots, and has only six layers.
I contact with suppliers in other cities to see what more they can offer me.
Whenever I get the news they reported.
The topic of bracing I leave for later, once I have the material.
Ed:
no, I have not one around to build cabinets.
Thanks for the help.
Sergio Fontenla.
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