I've just come into possession of a pair of Altec 414-8C loudspeakers. I'm thinking about building two separate subwoofer units with these. Can someone tell me if they would be suitable for a small PA system (for a rock band)?
I would really appreciate it if someone could provide the necessary parameters to design or dimensions for a sealed enclosure for this purpose.
The cones and suspensions seem fine but the dust caps are dented. Would this have any major effect on their performance.
Thank you.
I would really appreciate it if someone could provide the necessary parameters to design or dimensions for a sealed enclosure for this purpose.
The cones and suspensions seem fine but the dust caps are dented. Would this have any major effect on their performance.
Thank you.
Hi Al,
Subwoofer, no
PA woofer, yes
Google the parameters, it's a common speaker
Dented dust caps not usually a problem but often you can pop them back out either with a hooked pin or vacuum.
Subwoofer, no
PA woofer, yes
Google the parameters, it's a common speaker
Dented dust caps not usually a problem but often you can pop them back out either with a hooked pin or vacuum.
Very fragile as far as power handling goes (50W pink noise, 100W program material), I would sell them to a collector and buy what you need new.
RE 5.80 Ω (23◦ C)
FS 26.6 Hz
QTS 0.21
QMS 5.84
QES 0.21
SD 81.71 in.2 (0.053 m2)
XMAX 0.15 in. (4 mm)
VD 12.26 in.3 (0.2 l)
VAS 10.49 ft.3 (297.0 l)
ηo 2.52 %
RE 5.80 Ω (23◦ C)
FS 26.6 Hz
QTS 0.21
QMS 5.84
QES 0.21
SD 81.71 in.2 (0.053 m2)
XMAX 0.15 in. (4 mm)
VD 12.26 in.3 (0.2 l)
VAS 10.49 ft.3 (297.0 l)
ηo 2.52 %
Cal and djk,
Thank you both for the quick response and good advice. I had not thought about using a vacuum to restore the dust cap. Great idea. And thanks for providing the the TS parameters. This will be very helpful if in fact I do not take your advice about passing them onto a collector.
Thank you both for the quick response and good advice. I had not thought about using a vacuum to restore the dust cap. Great idea. And thanks for providing the the TS parameters. This will be very helpful if in fact I do not take your advice about passing them onto a collector.
really should listen to these first.
might like what you hear.
home sound system and all.
You really, really need to pass those on to a collector.
The first hit of a bass drum in a live setting will kill them outright, I promise. 50w pink noise and 100w peaks isn't a lot of noise.
You could take the money from a pair of those and get some more suitable drivers, or some lower-end active boxes.
Chris
The first hit of a bass drum in a live setting will kill them outright, I promise. 50w pink noise and 100w peaks isn't a lot of noise.
You could take the money from a pair of those and get some more suitable drivers, or some lower-end active boxes.
Chris
Don't let the power ratings of Altec drivers steer you wrong Chris and djk. They've been like that since I was a boy. If these are for something small, they can work just fine. Rock Band, maybe not but don't underestimate their abilities.
Also, for Altec drivers I like to use this for the T/S as they "discovered that a few of the original derivations were actually in error."
Altec Thiele-Small Parameters
Also, for Altec drivers I like to use this for the T/S as they "discovered that a few of the original derivations were actually in error."
Altec Thiele-Small Parameters
"Don't let the power ratings of Altec drivers steer you wrong Chris and djk."
The 3" paper coil formers burst into flames with a 200W amp. The EV with 2-1/2" formers handled the power better.
The 3" paper coil formers burst into flames with a 200W amp. The EV with 2-1/2" formers handled the power better.
WTF
I can't believe what I'm reading here. What non-sense. The 414(z or a) will produce better bass at higher volumes that nearly anything on the market today (save TAD, Scanning and a few others). I've worked with 100's of drives pro and consumer. Altec are always a cut above.
If you don't want them PLEASE sell them to me. It's fun showing people how the 414(s) blow away Accuton, Scan Speak, Eton (especially Eton) and nearly every other driver I've tested.
PLEASE sell them to me.
I can't believe what I'm reading here. What non-sense. The 414(z or a) will produce better bass at higher volumes that nearly anything on the market today (save TAD, Scanning and a few others). I've worked with 100's of drives pro and consumer. Altec are always a cut above.
If you don't want them PLEASE sell them to me. It's fun showing people how the 414(s) blow away Accuton, Scan Speak, Eton (especially Eton) and nearly every other driver I've tested.
PLEASE sell them to me.
Fine.
Build 2x 40Hz THs. Put one of these in one: B&C Speakers
And the Altec in the other. EQ them to be equal.
Hit both with a 1KW amplifier and run it up to occasionally clipping. Which one survives the night?
The Altec might (might) sound nicer at lower volumes, but it will never ever be louder than something with more than twice the Xmax and 20x the thermal power handling.
... and that's without going to the 21" subs.
Chris
Unrealist endurance test
Chris, first of all we are talking about sound quality and durability under normal use conditions. Why don't you call Jammin Jersey out in L.A. and ask them what holds up in real world conditions. They'll tell you Altec and JBL. Not that it matters, not that it matters I understood we were talking about sound quality in non-commercial use.
Besides your test is bizarre. Run an amp up to clipping on a high efficiency speaker. I assume you mean SS with high distortion.
As for xmax. The greater the xmax the greater the power handling. Yes up to a point. However, in most, but not all cases, greater xmax means poorer sound. I've never heard an Altec bottom out. If you force the issue any speaker will bottom out. The real question is: does the driver have adequate xmax for normal listening conditions. NOT, what happens under sustained high abuse conditions.
B&C makes nice commercial PA drivers. Unfortunately they don't sound particularly good. If we were talking about PA you'd have a point, but were not.
I noticed the Union Jack so I assume a British connection. If so I suspect that you know the ATC PA drivers. Excellent sound lousy durability. About 1/2 of them I see have problems.
There are countless Altec drivers, over 40 years old, that still work flawlessly.
Chris, first of all we are talking about sound quality and durability under normal use conditions. Why don't you call Jammin Jersey out in L.A. and ask them what holds up in real world conditions. They'll tell you Altec and JBL. Not that it matters, not that it matters I understood we were talking about sound quality in non-commercial use.
Besides your test is bizarre. Run an amp up to clipping on a high efficiency speaker. I assume you mean SS with high distortion.
As for xmax. The greater the xmax the greater the power handling. Yes up to a point. However, in most, but not all cases, greater xmax means poorer sound. I've never heard an Altec bottom out. If you force the issue any speaker will bottom out. The real question is: does the driver have adequate xmax for normal listening conditions. NOT, what happens under sustained high abuse conditions.
B&C makes nice commercial PA drivers. Unfortunately they don't sound particularly good. If we were talking about PA you'd have a point, but were not.
I noticed the Union Jack so I assume a British connection. If so I suspect that you know the ATC PA drivers. Excellent sound lousy durability. About 1/2 of them I see have problems.
There are countless Altec drivers, over 40 years old, that still work flawlessly.
Over a woofer's narrow BW, no way! 'Been there, done that' and it's a complete waste of a fine wide BW woofer that will indeed be one of the best SQ available at modest power levels when XO'd as high as ~1500 Hz and some folks have been known to be plenty happy running them 'full range' with just a capped off super tweeter.
GM
We are talking about PA speakers. In PA-system-world, you use high efficiency drivers and several big solid-state amps, and you eek out everything the system's got.
To give you an idea, the midrange drivers in my PA are 97dB@1w. I wire both in parallel, and hit them with an amplifier that'll do 1KW per driver. Sometimes that amp clips. Not often, but sometimes. The drivers I use are 600w continuous rated, so they can stand short durations of 1KW.
I promise you that the Altec speakers we're talking about will not survive the sort of use that is demanded in modern PA systems.
I expect they're very nice for HiFi use, but that's not what we're discussing here.
Chris
PS - as for solid-state amps with high distortion, show me something not-SS that'll do 7KW/ch into 2ohm @ <0.05% THD, weighs 12kg, and fits in a 2-unit rack space. Any cost, sky's the limit.
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Old thread.
The OP wanted to use those drivers in a PA system.
In the PA world, kilowatts are common and high-efficiency drivers are mandatory.
Those Altecs are high-efficiency, and fine for HiFi use. They'd also do fine for small venues with acoustic music, but I wouldn't want to see them destroyed trying to push vocals over a loud drum kit in a rock band situation.
Chris
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