I am about to order a pair of Alpair 7 A Generation 3 Gold fullranges erm... widebands for a 10-15ltr bookshelf speaker.
Any opinions/experiences on the sound, quality, etc.?
How do they sound without eq?
Alternatives?
Wait...
I`ll probably go for the [SIZE=+1]10 M.
[/SIZE]
Any opinions/experiences on the sound, quality, etc.?
How do they sound without eq?
Alternatives?
Wait...
I`ll probably go for the [SIZE=+1]10 M.
[/SIZE]
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Well, before deleting, which paper cone did you decide on instead? I've had experience with almost every Mark Audio driver since the EL70, and in a wide range of enclosure sizes and applications, and I think that last word would be key to the decision calculus.
For what its worth mu forst build was Alpair 7.3 into planet10 CGR boxes. I am blown away by the sound they make, no EQ. recently i attended a UK DIY forum hosted by Stefan@KJF audio and heard several other "small" drivers in various boxes, all of them larger than the P10CGR, and in my opinion the como I have was/is better than all of them. Give it a go mate, you wont be dissapointed
1st let me say that i wish Mark Audio would start calling these Copper rather than using the Gold left over on boxes from the 1st generation.
Gold A6 1st gen vrs copper A7.3.
The A7.3 is my favortite Mark Audio driver (allthou we always EnABL ours), and ignoring the A7 MOAP). The current generation metal A10 almost rises to the same level of mid/top and DDR (downward dyanamic range, think detail) of the A7.3. For most users the extra bass of the A10 makes more difference… one needs a front end also with good DDR to realize the benefits of the A7.3.
In the Mark Audio drivers the differences between metal and paper in the A6/A10/A12 has very much a family resemblance. The metal cones could probably be described as more accurate (at least for the A6/A10), the top on the paper cones more of a “vintage” character. That said my personal preference is for the paper (a 6 of one, half dozen of the other), The metal A10 does take a lot of break-in to really shine.
Worth noting that in North America it seems more people prefer the paper, in Great Britain the metal.
You can’t go wrong with either.
The A7 paper is the odd driver out. It has some HF problems that make it seem that the metal cone sounds more like what you would expect paper to sound like, and the paper like a stereotypical metal cone. Treatment and a long break-in seems to make the paper cone issues much smaller. Still we feel the metal cone better. Those that have gotten the A7p really like them (perhaps an indicator of the high level of all )most of) the Mark Audio drivers.
We consider 9-10 litres optimum for the A7.3, 13 litres for the A103, 17 litres for the A10p, 5 litres for the A6.2p, 3.6 litres for the A6.2m, and 11-13 litre for the A7p.
Hope that evaluation helps.
dave
PS: I currently have A10PeN in the main system (in 17 litre Mar-Ken10pTT prototypes).
Gold A6 1st gen vrs copper A7.3.
The A7.3 is my favortite Mark Audio driver (allthou we always EnABL ours), and ignoring the A7 MOAP). The current generation metal A10 almost rises to the same level of mid/top and DDR (downward dyanamic range, think detail) of the A7.3. For most users the extra bass of the A10 makes more difference… one needs a front end also with good DDR to realize the benefits of the A7.3.
In the Mark Audio drivers the differences between metal and paper in the A6/A10/A12 has very much a family resemblance. The metal cones could probably be described as more accurate (at least for the A6/A10), the top on the paper cones more of a “vintage” character. That said my personal preference is for the paper (a 6 of one, half dozen of the other), The metal A10 does take a lot of break-in to really shine.
Worth noting that in North America it seems more people prefer the paper, in Great Britain the metal.
You can’t go wrong with either.
The A7 paper is the odd driver out. It has some HF problems that make it seem that the metal cone sounds more like what you would expect paper to sound like, and the paper like a stereotypical metal cone. Treatment and a long break-in seems to make the paper cone issues much smaller. Still we feel the metal cone better. Those that have gotten the A7p really like them (perhaps an indicator of the high level of all )most of) the Mark Audio drivers.
We consider 9-10 litres optimum for the A7.3, 13 litres for the A103, 17 litres for the A10p, 5 litres for the A6.2p, 3.6 litres for the A6.2m, and 11-13 litre for the A7p.
Hope that evaluation helps.
dave
PS: I currently have A10PeN in the main system (in 17 litre Mar-Ken10pTT prototypes).
I must have some english DNA in me because I very much prefer the metal cones too. The paper 7 and 10 I have heard are vintage in that "oh yeah thats my grandfathers old radio" kind of way. Nice but not the "right as rain" quality of the metal cones. Having said that I will also say man does that break in time make a difference. Just throw a blanket over em and play for 200 hours before you even begin to appreciate how great they really are.
Very much so the mark audios too. mark is an expat brit, and was an apprentise of Ted Jordan for 5 years before he was let loose his own ideas which become evident in the giant improvement in the second generation of drivers.
We lenyt out our A10.3eN and they came back with an estimated 1000+ hours on them and we had to reevaluate our early opinon.
dave
Just curious about your comment on 9-10 liters being optimum for 7.3. Optimum for your aperiodic marken enclosures or sealed or what? I'm curious what makes that size optimum. I'm thinking of an aperiodic using one of those scan speak vents and still scratching my head about best volume enclosure. I'm going to hand over the bass duties to another driver at around 60-70Hz.
I am talking about optimum for my miniOnken alignment where i am looking for a very specific curve that i approximate the added LF attenuation of the resistive vents. The shape i look for has a bit of a bump before rolloff and has a 1st derivative of the FR that only crosses zero once.
You are on your own as far as variovents go. When i have done boxes that emulate the use of a variovent i made a too small sealed box and then tune the vent. Looks like you could usea 2 litre box with this approach. At that side i’d worry about early sidewall reflections back thru the cone.
dave
You are on your own as far as variovents go. When i have done boxes that emulate the use of a variovent i made a too small sealed box and then tune the vent. Looks like you could usea 2 litre box with this approach. At that side i’d worry about early sidewall reflections back thru the cone.
dave
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Thanks Dave that's helpful information, definitely want to avoid any reflections back through the cone. Looking at your chart what I'm thinking now is just make a size I can live with sealed (that 6.385 liter looks good) and try the vent and if i don't like it just seal it up again.
That size gives a max-flat butterworth roll-off and F10 in the high 50s. We have sone successful 4.7 litre vented boxes a vent could be added — noteworthy that this box did not sound quite as open as the larger boxes, likely due to the early reflections off the sidewalls. Keep in mind that stuffing will increase the aparent size of your box.
dave
dave
1st let me say that i wish Mark Audio would start calling these Copper rather than using the Gold left over on boxes from the 1st generation.
Gold A6 1st gen vrs copper A7.3.
The A7.3 is my favortite Mark Audio driver
Thanks for the detailed answer.
I have no direct experience of this driver, but have done a miniOnken for them. Big for a miniOnken.
I do have a pr of these headed her efor treatment so will have some real-worl feedback in a month or so.
What i have seen has never enthused me, but one has to be wary without real world experience.
dave
OK.
Dayton PS220 is history.
Enclosure gets too big for reasonable low freq extension.
The Markaudio Alpair 10 M Gen. 3 Gold is back!
Those Oncken look lovely.
If they can be built in the size of like 210 x 300 x 220-280 mm I might opt for those.
Dayton PS220 is history.
Enclosure gets too big for reasonable low freq extension.
The Markaudio Alpair 10 M Gen. 3 Gold is back!
Those Oncken look lovely.
If they can be built in the size of like 210 x 300 x 220-280 mm I might opt for those.
Copper, please call them copper.
Here are the extents of all the A10x trapezoid Mar-Kens. The trapezoids are not the easiest build. There are rectangular ones that are easier, and the Classic Golden Ratio and Compact Floorstanders easiest. They also make better use of a specific retangular box limitation.
As well the shapes can be morphed to fir specific customer needs.
dave
Here are the extents of all the A10x trapezoid Mar-Kens. The trapezoids are not the easiest build. There are rectangular ones that are easier, and the Classic Golden Ratio and Compact Floorstanders easiest. They also make better use of a specific retangular box limitation.
As well the shapes can be morphed to fir specific customer needs.
dave
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