Advice/Ideas on a tiny speaker with a big sound

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w2olves

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Joined 2016
#1
I feel like I need to give a short backstory before I ask the question.
My father is 84 and has recently moved to an apartment for elderly. Two of his childhood buddies live there so it has been easy for him so far. What hasnt been easy is giving up his largish Tannoy speakers with 10 inch drivers.

His new place is much smaller and he has only enough space for a small bookshelf and a tiny amp.

He likes to listen to his music fairly loud, I think that happened since an accident in the military. And he likes a V shaped curve that over emphasizes bass and treble.

So far he hasnt found anything that has a small footprint and has his favorite sound signature.

I live in USA and he is in Germany, I plan to visit him over the summer and do a small diy father-son project with him.

I realize we cant get past the laws of physics. Still, what would one suggest for a small speaker build with a nice punchy sound ?

**EDIT
I realized my initial question was a bit vague so I am adding some ideas I have, any feedback is much appreciated.

1) 3 Way system using Tang Band W69-1042J 6"x9" Subwoofer (side mounted)://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-amt-mini-8-air-motion-transformer-tweeter-8-ohm--275-095"]AMT Tweeter[/URL]
Fountek FE87 3" Full Range Driver 8 Ohm as the midrange and Dayton AMT Tweeter


2) A two way using Tang Band w6-1139s and the above Dayton tweeter with perhaps two Dayton Audio 6.5 Passive radiators


3) A two way using the above set up but a Tangband W5 woofer


Which one get me the best low end extension in the smallest cabinet ? It doesnt really need to play loud.

Any other combinations to think of ?

Thanks in advance
 
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#2
w2olves,

It's great that you are planning a father and son project, and wish you guys lot of fun building and enjoying the speakers. 🙂

What type of music will he be playing? If his content doesn't go very low, probably he will get better results with a quality mid-woofer. I am not an expert, and I am sure others will chime in with recommendations.

One compact project that comes to mind is the following - however I haven't heard this in person:

https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/overnightsensationmtm

But as you said, no beating physics...
 
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#3
I've been building speaker systems since the 1960's as a hobbyist, and had a chance to learn quite a bit from EE's at Tektronix and Dolby when I worked there as an ET or EA. Recently, at age 61, I realize it's time to shrink my footprint so I can fit in a place I can afford. So I built a 2 way, with an 8 inch woofer and a Peerless/Tympany TG9FD1008 three inch mid/tweeter driver (in a sub-enclosure). I bi-amp it with X=500HZ, 4 pole LR active crossover. The cabinet is almost a copy of the AR4X speaker (slightly larger) , and is sealed. I also put another circuit in the crossover chassis that boosts the low bass by about 10dB, peaking at 34HZ, with a fast rolloff below that, and no effect above about 100HZ. I also designed and built a 4 section Baxandall tone control circuit for my preamp.

I can't recommend a 3 or 4 section Baxandall tone control circuit enough. It's ridiculous that any preamp doesn't have this. And the low bass pump circuit is also to die for in my opinion. For woofers I'd recommend a Peerless Nomex cone, 6.5 inch or 8 inch. I have those in another system and love them.

What's great about my system is that there is no crossover happening in the upper-midrange, like so many other speaker systems have, where our hearing is most sensitive. No moving lobes of maximum intensity, and no abrupt change in off-axis dispersion. My 3 inch acting as a tweeter rolls off relatively gradually. The end result is one of the best sounding systems I've ever built.

Also, getting a passive crossover to be accurate is often very difficult, due to the changing impedance curve of many drivers. Cabinet effects can make this more challenging still. An active crossover performs exactly the way you design it, and good tone controls give you the ability to deal with room acoustics, Fletcher-Munson and baffle step issues easily and effectively.

The sub-enclosure for the 3 inch driver must be completely resonant free. I used a 4 inch inner diameter ABS plastic plumbing pipe (bought at Home Depot) that goes all the way to the back of the enclosure (about 9 inches), and is about half stuffed with wool felt, foam rubber and regular synthetic fiber glass fluffy stuff. it's a sealed enclosure as well. It measures flat from about 400HZ to about 14kHZ.

When I took this picture, I had the Vifa/Tympany TC9FD1008 drivers in the box. They are almost identical to the TG9's which have light gray glass fiber cones. The TC9's measure almost as good for half the price ($12 instead of $22 per). The TG has a slightly smoother high end.

This may be overkill for what you're trying to do, but this is what I've learned is a great way to go. The stereo effects have a coherence that you don't always get with more complicated systems, and the low bass is VERY enjoyable. Now I just need to sell my much bigger 3 way triamp'd open baffle system in the other room...

Oh, I forgot to mention the tweeter. It's the same one McIntosh used in the early 1970's, but I never actually hooked it up. There's no need to. I was going to bring it in at about 8kHZ as an option, if the 3 inch driver didn't have good enough high treble. The TG9 sounds so good I don't want to mess with it. I power the whole thing with a 4 channel 3886 power amp I built. See more on my website if you're interested. http://www.ephaseaudio.com/
 

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#5
zman01 said:
w2olves,

It's great that you are planning a father and son project, and wish you guys lot of fun building and enjoying the speakers. 🙂

What type of music will he be playing? If his content doesn't go very low, probably he will get better results with a quality mid-woofer. I am not an expert, and I am sure others will chime in with recommendations.

One compact project that comes to mind is the following - however I haven't heard this in person:

https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/overnightsensationmtm

But as you said, no beating physics...
Click to expand...


My dad listens to a lot of classical music, pianos, organs not much vocals. Lately he has caught on a strange interest in dubstep. I never imagined folks at an elderly home jamming out to dubstep but fact is stranger than fiction. The overnight sensations are in my mind as well. However I am hoping for something smaller.
 
#6
Bob Richards said:
I've been building speaker systems since the 1960's as a hobbyist, and had a chance to learn quite a bit from EE's at Tektronix and Dolby when I worked there as an ET or EA. Recently, at age 61, I realize it's time to shrink my footprint so I can fit in a place I can afford. So I built a 2 way, with an 8 inch woofer and a Peerless/Tympany TG9FD1008 three inch mid/tweeter driver (in a sub-enclosure). I bi-amp it with X=500HZ, 4 pole LR active crossover. The cabinet is almost a copy of the AR4X speaker (slightly larger) , and is sealed. I also put another circuit in the crossover chassis that boosts the low bass by about 10dB, peaking at 34HZ, with a fast rolloff below that, and no effect above about 100HZ. I also designed and built a 4 section Baxandall tone control circuit for my preamp.

I can't recommend a 3 or 4 section Baxandall tone control circuit enough. It's ridiculous that any preamp doesn't have this. And the low bass pump circuit is also to die for in my opinion. For woofers I'd recommend a Peerless Nomex cone, 6.5 inch or 8 inch. I have those in another system and love them.

What's great about my system is that there is no crossover happening in the upper-midrange, like so many other speaker systems have, where our hearing is most sensitive. No moving lobes of maximum intensity, and no abrupt change in off-axis dispersion. My 3 inch acting as a tweeter rolls off relatively gradually. The end result is one of the best sounding systems I've ever built.

Also, getting a passive crossover to be accurate is often very difficult, due to the changing impedance curve of many drivers. Cabinet effects can make this more challenging still. An active crossover performs exactly the way you design it, and good tone controls give you the ability to deal with room acoustics, Fletcher-Munson and baffle step issues easily and effectively.

The sub-enclosure for the 3 inch driver must be completely resonant free. I used a 4 inch inner diameter ABS plastic plumbing pipe (bought at Home Depot) that goes all the way to the back of the enclosure (about 9 inches), and is about half stuffed with wool felt, foam rubber and regular synthetic fiber glass fluffy stuff. it's a sealed enclosure as well. It measures flat from about 400HZ to about 14kHZ.

When I took this picture, I had the Vifa/Tympany TC9FD1008 drivers in the box. They are almost identical to the TG9's which have light gray glass fiber cones. The TC9's measure almost as good for half the price ($12 instead of $22 per). The TG has a slightly smoother high end.

This may be overkill for what you're trying to do, but this is what I've learned is a great way to go. The stereo effects have a coherence that you don't always get with more complicated systems, and the low bass is VERY enjoyable. Now I just need to sell my much bigger 3 way triamp'd open baffle system in the other room...

Oh, I forgot to mention the tweeter. It's the same one McIntosh used in the early 1970's, but I never actually hooked it up. There's no need to. I was going to bring it in at about 8kHZ as an option, if the 3 inch driver didn't have good enough high treble. The TG9 sounds so good I don't want to mess with it. I power the whole thing with a 4 channel 3886 power amp I built. See more on my website if you're interested. Bob's Website
Click to expand...


I had a fun time going through your site. Thank you so much for sharing. I like the speaker idea you shared. Reminds me of a Nakamichi Speaker I once heard that was simply amazing. The problem is. My father's entire life and belongings now are shrunk to a 10 X 14 feet room. And a small desk he built himself years ago. As much as I would love to build him a nice three way with 8 or 12 inch woofers, he simply doesnt have room for it. I have to find a tiny speaker that sounds better than the $100 marshal acton bluetooth speaker he listens to.
 
#9
I don't think any of your 1,2,3 options are particularly easy. I'd discount the 2nd and 3rd options unless you substitute tweeter for wide range driver. As those Tang band subs won't like playing high to cross to the tweeter.

Possibly a 2.1 system with a hidden away sub would be a good solution. Main speakers could be 2 ways or one of the larger FR drivers.

You should also research what drivers are easily available in Germany unless you plan to bring everything with you.
 
#10
ra7 said:
This should fit the bill:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/292379-small-syns.html

Quite small, can go loud, and fantastic anyway because its a synergy.
Click to expand...

Would have already made it if I had the good enough hand skill to make the horn transformations...🙂. A great quality is they also been developed to be close the front wall ! Just buy screw-stool for the stands job to tweak the listening height ?!

I'm sure the Bob project with two 2x4 Minidsp HD is easier and will have the advantage to tailor easily the sound ! (But damn, how do we putt a Vifa TG9 on a 4" diameter tube???) (I like a lot also the idea of the sealed 8")
 
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#15
smaller than the Ovenight Sensation ?! It's very small already...😱

Dost it need to be shelf speakers or a small foot print but with heigher heigth will be good (narrow floorstander à la Proac D18 clone) ?

Something maybe also to consider if the foot print is viatal cause the space is this "thing" : http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...k-building-cornu-spiral-horn-now-you-can.html Cornu spiral : one driver, Frame on a wall (= no space loss), interressant diy project, no messy XO and bass enhanced by the wall (?)

There is in Germany a famous on line shop with such project !
 
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#17
...with the Mini DSP 2x4 HD for the L. transform and mini Class D amps ? or Something like a wall soundbar ? (stereo in one box has often a good soundin tiny spaces like the old TV or radio)
 
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