What is your definition about "accurate" in sound reproduction?
What is your definition about "pleasantness" in sound reproduction?
What do you choose of sound reproduction, "accurate" or "pleasantness" for your taste?
What is your definition about "pleasantness" in sound reproduction?
What do you choose of sound reproduction, "accurate" or "pleasantness" for your taste?
Please permit me to omit definitions, and instead simply to say that I strive for a balance of both --- "accurantness" . . .
Accurate isn't really meaningful imo because you never have the original as a comparison. You might think its accurate... but !
You might have a system that does a good job of reproducing a single instrument or for example a single struck note on a piano. It might "sound" like the original instrument would in the concert hall. Bring the full orchestra into the mix and I guarantee it doesn't now sound "accurate".
Pleasantness.. I just look for the system or components that give long term listening pleasure. The system that has you exploring the music, wanting to listen, not thinking about whether this or that resistor or cap would be better.
You might have a system that does a good job of reproducing a single instrument or for example a single struck note on a piano. It might "sound" like the original instrument would in the concert hall. Bring the full orchestra into the mix and I guarantee it doesn't now sound "accurate".
Pleasantness.. I just look for the system or components that give long term listening pleasure. The system that has you exploring the music, wanting to listen, not thinking about whether this or that resistor or cap would be better.
If we choose "pleasantness" then designing of sound reproduction is judge only by our subjectivism. Taste of people are different. In my country, many people like strong bass, even if clipping happened they can not know until the tweeter blown.
If I sell amplifier to them, should I design a powerful amplifier with high distortion (which is easy to do)?
We have only ourselves to please and that to me makes it almost an entirely subjective argument.
If you sell amplifiers then you have to design and offer what the people want, even you do not agree with the sound quality the product offers.
They are all different design goals.
If you sell amplifiers then you have to design and offer what the people want, even you do not agree with the sound quality the product offers.
They are all different design goals.
Just build an amplifier that is reliable and safe, put it in an impressive looking case and let marketing BS do the rest.
Equipment is accurate if you can't hear a difference between input and output. Its easy to test unlike what Mooly claims, except for loudspeakers where you need an expensive shuffler to move the speakers around fast.
Pleasantness is if you like the sounds you hear or not. I'll leave that up to the musicians and recording engineers.
I do have several inaccurate (mostly tube) amps and dac's, but I don't listen to them any more. The "euphoric" distortions get boring fast. The accurate stuff is a lot cheaper to.
Pleasantness is if you like the sounds you hear or not. I'll leave that up to the musicians and recording engineers.
I do have several inaccurate (mostly tube) amps and dac's, but I don't listen to them any more. The "euphoric" distortions get boring fast. The accurate stuff is a lot cheaper to.
Do you think I must design an amplifier that have THD as low as possible, slew rate as high as possible, IM distortion as low as possible, PSRR as high as possible, etc. Even I do not like the sound?
I would say you need THD below 0.01% at all frequencies in the audio band, and all power levels between 1W and full output, and slew rate above 50V/us for a 50-100W amp. if you have good slew rate and low THD at high frequency and high power, you will also have low IMD.
That is a sort of minimum spec where the distortion is probably small enough that it isn't audible. In other words, "accurate". If you built something that meets or exceeds that spec, and you don't like the sound of it, that is a completely separate issue that arguably has nothing to do with audio engineering. How can you dislike the sound of something that doesn't have a sound of its own?
and if you want to adjust "the sound" of such accurate/transparent amp then add a niceness circuit in series - signal level electronics is so much cheaper
look up the Carver Stereophile Challenge
look up the Carver Stereophile Challenge
Last edited:
If accuracy is your goal, you should design so that artefacts are not audible. Its no use going to the extreme of "as low as possible". No one uses a mining dump truck to go shopping, its ridiculous and unnecessary expensive. Common sense like this in audio seems often illusive.
Liking the sound or not is a matter of taste, we all like different things.
Audibly accurate sound is always pleasant, IME - very rarely found in the wild, because artifacts are usually quite apparent ... though, one needs to hear familiar recordings via a system without subjectively disturbing anomalies to appreciate what's possible. Then one knows what to look for, which is to excise all audible aberrations - if the system can go to maximum loudness with zero audible degradation then you're in pretty good shape ...
Considering Mooly's example, it should do both solo piano, and piano with full orchestra coming in equally well, with no dramas or edginess.
Considering Mooly's example, it should do both solo piano, and piano with full orchestra coming in equally well, with no dramas or edginess.
Last edited:
Its just my opinion,
However as far as I'm concerned a system should produce a sound stage between and beyond the speakers, it should reproduce a sound that sounds natural, it should be easy to hear detail without strain, it should convince you that the sound you hear sounds like reality.
Now all the above are subjective however I think when you have listened to a system that sounds like you are listening to the event then its hard to go back. YMMV..
Now hear is the rub..if the above is not achieved it doesn't matter if its low THD perfect frequency response or anything else..the system is a waste of time!
The other point is theoretically if its perfect frequency response and flat then its should sound like the above.. 😀
I guess the other point is..how many people go into a listening room and say don't power it up I want to read the specifications!
Then I'll buy it..
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Then how many people say I want to listen to it..then either accept or reject just on what they want to hear!
How many buy purely on magazine articles?
How many buy on looks and then sound?
How many say it sounds great but I don't want that in my house!
However how many people think ONLY specs are important?
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Here is one more..
What happens when the music sounds great, but when its used as a cinema amp it sounds terrible?
Regards
M. Gregg
However as far as I'm concerned a system should produce a sound stage between and beyond the speakers, it should reproduce a sound that sounds natural, it should be easy to hear detail without strain, it should convince you that the sound you hear sounds like reality.
Now all the above are subjective however I think when you have listened to a system that sounds like you are listening to the event then its hard to go back. YMMV..
Now hear is the rub..if the above is not achieved it doesn't matter if its low THD perfect frequency response or anything else..the system is a waste of time!
The other point is theoretically if its perfect frequency response and flat then its should sound like the above.. 😀
I guess the other point is..how many people go into a listening room and say don't power it up I want to read the specifications!
Then I'll buy it..
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Then how many people say I want to listen to it..then either accept or reject just on what they want to hear!
How many buy purely on magazine articles?
How many buy on looks and then sound?
How many say it sounds great but I don't want that in my house!
However how many people think ONLY specs are important?
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Here is one more..
What happens when the music sounds great, but when its used as a cinema amp it sounds terrible?
Regards
M. Gregg
Last edited:
Speed and dynamics..
Current delivery and frequency response?, perhaps there is the reproduction of the human voice?
I have in the distant past built amplifiers that sounded very pleasant and realistic with music, however used in home cinema they were rubbish..
Over extended bass...smear...and high frequencies that were just a pain to listen to..
However I have listened to "Chord" equipment that left me cold with sharp treble and bass that wasn't musical<<out of time with the rest of the presentation.
Or it gave me a headache after a short time..🙄
So I always listen to these brilliant pieces of equipment and then ask where have I heard in real life situations of treble that sounds like that..if I imagine a piece of metal rubbing against a shaft with a high pitched squeal it dosent sound like spit and tizzz that some systems produce so well!
Its also interesting to note that if you connect a signal generator to equipment as you increase the frequency or decrease it most of the time you will hit what sounds like a point of resonance where the sound appears to break up into a mess..perhaps its the speed perhaps its the speakers perhaps its a combination..however when does a signal generator sound like real life sounds?
Its obvious that you can get components charge and discharge and not be able to maintain current delivery over long periods, however equipment is always a compromise and cost isn't always the answer!
Power supply recovery time "Transient" is always a point of interest, the thing that many people don't do is sit and listen to the real world! just sit in a shopping centre or out in the fields and listen..what does the real world sound like?
With the best will in the world you are trying to recreate nature via an electronic piece of equipment!
If the equipment reproduces the sound of what should be real life and it doesn't sound like real life what is the point of the equipment?
Regards
M. Gregg
Last edited:
Sounds like the often heard corners that some systems paint themselves into - constantly tweaked to sound impressive with "audiophile" recordings, and they end up a complete mess! IME those "very special" recordings are pretty drab affairs, designed to offend nobody - and a system that makes them sound spectacular has become so unbalanced that conventional recordings are a disaster to listen to.
A competent system will extract the most out of every recording, and every instrument sounds convincing - conveys the intensity and drama of the real thing every time ...
Yes,
Its like tuning a system using one piece of music on replay...you bias the equipment to one situation..
The problem then is you need to tune it to the next one and the next one..
Or tuning equipment to play classical..then try to play rock..or the other way around.
It sounds like the requirements are different..but on closer inspection they aren't..the problem is the system is not capable of producing a real life range of sounds.. Speed and smear..current delivery and transient/ recovery time..or the frequencies that can create sudo surround sound.
Its a bit like saying the system can deliver current for a bass drum but ask it to do the same with a machine gun sound and its in trouble!
Then make the situation worse and ask it to reproduce a human voice at the same time.. smear..( the picture of sound becomes like a wet oil painting with a palette knife dragged across it!)
Perhaps frequency modulation could be an issue..AM and FM audio..😀
Regards
M. Gregg
Its like tuning a system using one piece of music on replay...you bias the equipment to one situation..
The problem then is you need to tune it to the next one and the next one..
Or tuning equipment to play classical..then try to play rock..or the other way around.
It sounds like the requirements are different..but on closer inspection they aren't..the problem is the system is not capable of producing a real life range of sounds.. Speed and smear..current delivery and transient/ recovery time..or the frequencies that can create sudo surround sound.
Its a bit like saying the system can deliver current for a bass drum but ask it to do the same with a machine gun sound and its in trouble!
Then make the situation worse and ask it to reproduce a human voice at the same time.. smear..( the picture of sound becomes like a wet oil painting with a palette knife dragged across it!)
Perhaps frequency modulation could be an issue..AM and FM audio..😀
Regards
M. Gregg
Last edited:
- Status
- Not open for further replies.