I hope this is in the right category!
(Pictures in the reply section!)
Righto, so in October of 2018, I inherited a Zenith MK2608 record console from my late great-grandparents. It had been sitting in the garage at my uncle's place, and I, a budding audio enthusiast, was just getting interested in vinyl and higher fidelity stuff like that. A record console seemed like a great deal, especially one that was free! Oh, little did I know.
The cabinet was in great shape when we got it, and all of the parts seemed to be there. It came with the Rocky soundtrack and a bunch of other LPs and 45s, so I was excited from the get-go. I tried the AM and FM radio, and they both worked very well. The turntable, on the other hand, needed work. Firstly, 1/2 of the needle was missing, so it could play 78s, but not LPs or 45s. I didn't know this at first, and wondered why the needle kept drifting across the records. Good times.
There were also issues with the player beyond the needle. It clacked constantly, and the mechanism liked to jam. I was not willing to find old parts to fix the thing and end up with a mediocre ceramic cartridge and a record changing mechanism that I didn't like, and so I removed the turntable from the cabinet. I wanted something great. I wanted to show people this 57 year old console, and then blow their socks off when they heard it play.
And so I got the cheapest Audio-Technica turntable I could, an AT-LP 60. 😀
I put in this new turntable in place of the old one, and it barely fit in the allocated space. I, along with my audio partner in crime who shall remain anonymous, spliced some new RCA jacks into the amplifier input cord, and fired it up. I believe the first thing we played was a Beatles 45. I thought it was the best thing ever. After all, there's a big jump in sound quality from broken to technically functional. I swapped the old corroded wire with some cheap speaker wire, and soldered the wires instead of using terminals. This became the first major improvement. This started off a sort of challenge I made with myself to make this console the best I possibly could.
Then of course, I realized that the capacitors should be measured and replaced as they were pretty old. A few of them were replaced, but most of them were left. This ended up being useless, and so this became round one against the capacitors. You see, "we" replaced maybe 3 electrolytic caps. (My mentor replaced them and I watched.) We left the power caps, all the other caps, and all of the resistors untouched.
A little bit of time passes, and then in February of this year I decided to replace all of the capacitors and all of the resistors. Enter round 2. I learned to solder, read schematics, read resistor bands, and all of that jazz by myself during this project. Days were spent hunched over the little 5K29 amp, praying that everything was going where it was supposed to. I was around 90% accurate, which isn't bad for a first try. We learned that the feedback loop was wired incorrectly from the factory, which wasn't as nice. It finally was completed.
Next, we added bracing inside the speaker cabinets. That was straightforward, and it helped prevent the cabinet from resonating nearly as much. I just used 2x4s placed asymmetrically. Don't just jam the corners in! Made sure the ends are flat against the panel.
Finally, we get to the speakers. The console had the original suite of speakers in it: two zenith 49cz852 12 inch woofers, quantity 2 5 inch mids, and quantity 4 3.5 inch tweeters. The woofers loved rattling their frames, and the mids and tweeters had absolutely zero excursion. We replaced all of those speakers with two modern 6 inch woofers and two dome tweeters. We made a 12 inch circle out of plywood, and put a 6 inch hole in the middle of it, making a doughnut shape. This was used as an adapter to put a 6 inch woofer in a 12 inch hole. What a difference these new speakers made!
I unfortunately have no pictures of the speakers installed, but I have them outside of the cabinet. They were harvested from a pair of BIC bookshelf speakers that had crummy crossovers. If there is demand, I'll unscrew the back panel and take a picture or two. 🙂
It's been a long road, but it's sounding better than it ever did before! I've learned a heck of a lot during this project, and it ain't over yet! Thanks for reading. 🙂
(Pictures in the reply section!)
Righto, so in October of 2018, I inherited a Zenith MK2608 record console from my late great-grandparents. It had been sitting in the garage at my uncle's place, and I, a budding audio enthusiast, was just getting interested in vinyl and higher fidelity stuff like that. A record console seemed like a great deal, especially one that was free! Oh, little did I know.
The cabinet was in great shape when we got it, and all of the parts seemed to be there. It came with the Rocky soundtrack and a bunch of other LPs and 45s, so I was excited from the get-go. I tried the AM and FM radio, and they both worked very well. The turntable, on the other hand, needed work. Firstly, 1/2 of the needle was missing, so it could play 78s, but not LPs or 45s. I didn't know this at first, and wondered why the needle kept drifting across the records. Good times.
There were also issues with the player beyond the needle. It clacked constantly, and the mechanism liked to jam. I was not willing to find old parts to fix the thing and end up with a mediocre ceramic cartridge and a record changing mechanism that I didn't like, and so I removed the turntable from the cabinet. I wanted something great. I wanted to show people this 57 year old console, and then blow their socks off when they heard it play.
And so I got the cheapest Audio-Technica turntable I could, an AT-LP 60. 😀
I put in this new turntable in place of the old one, and it barely fit in the allocated space. I, along with my audio partner in crime who shall remain anonymous, spliced some new RCA jacks into the amplifier input cord, and fired it up. I believe the first thing we played was a Beatles 45. I thought it was the best thing ever. After all, there's a big jump in sound quality from broken to technically functional. I swapped the old corroded wire with some cheap speaker wire, and soldered the wires instead of using terminals. This became the first major improvement. This started off a sort of challenge I made with myself to make this console the best I possibly could.
Then of course, I realized that the capacitors should be measured and replaced as they were pretty old. A few of them were replaced, but most of them were left. This ended up being useless, and so this became round one against the capacitors. You see, "we" replaced maybe 3 electrolytic caps. (My mentor replaced them and I watched.) We left the power caps, all the other caps, and all of the resistors untouched.
A little bit of time passes, and then in February of this year I decided to replace all of the capacitors and all of the resistors. Enter round 2. I learned to solder, read schematics, read resistor bands, and all of that jazz by myself during this project. Days were spent hunched over the little 5K29 amp, praying that everything was going where it was supposed to. I was around 90% accurate, which isn't bad for a first try. We learned that the feedback loop was wired incorrectly from the factory, which wasn't as nice. It finally was completed.
Next, we added bracing inside the speaker cabinets. That was straightforward, and it helped prevent the cabinet from resonating nearly as much. I just used 2x4s placed asymmetrically. Don't just jam the corners in! Made sure the ends are flat against the panel.
Finally, we get to the speakers. The console had the original suite of speakers in it: two zenith 49cz852 12 inch woofers, quantity 2 5 inch mids, and quantity 4 3.5 inch tweeters. The woofers loved rattling their frames, and the mids and tweeters had absolutely zero excursion. We replaced all of those speakers with two modern 6 inch woofers and two dome tweeters. We made a 12 inch circle out of plywood, and put a 6 inch hole in the middle of it, making a doughnut shape. This was used as an adapter to put a 6 inch woofer in a 12 inch hole. What a difference these new speakers made!
I unfortunately have no pictures of the speakers installed, but I have them outside of the cabinet. They were harvested from a pair of BIC bookshelf speakers that had crummy crossovers. If there is demand, I'll unscrew the back panel and take a picture or two. 🙂
It's been a long road, but it's sounding better than it ever did before! I've learned a heck of a lot during this project, and it ain't over yet! Thanks for reading. 🙂
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i love it !
in europe we only have console grundig telefunken saba etc etc with ell 80 or ecll80.
it is very hard or almost impossible to find a real console amp like the grunding nf1 or nf2 and nf20.
I dream of being able to easily buy zenith consoles or magnavox with real possibility of modification to make the hifi.
in europe we only have console grundig telefunken saba etc etc with ell 80 or ecll80.
it is very hard or almost impossible to find a real console amp like the grunding nf1 or nf2 and nf20.
I dream of being able to easily buy zenith consoles or magnavox with real possibility of modification to make the hifi.
you see that ,it's ridicule !!
Amplis Grundig nf20, nf2-Tube Amplifier Grundig NF 20 4x el 84-6bq5 | eBay
Amplis Grundig nf20, nf2-Tube Amplifier Grundig NF 20 4x el 84-6bq5 | eBay
Glad you like it! Wow, $400?! I think at that point you would be better off to just build one! Ebay is usually expensive when it comes to that stuff anyway, since they know what the amps are worth. I usually check Craigslist and Facebook marketplace. 🙂
When you say the woofers were "rattling their frames", what exactly do you mean? Were they blown? Voice coil rub? Did you have the amp turned up to the max?
I ask because those 12" woofers are very highly regarded, especially when used full range in open baffle designs. That's essentially how they are mounted in consoles.
And, I'm a bit surprised that the 6" BIC woofers sound good mounted open baffle since they were probably designed to be mounted in a small bass reflex enclosure. I would expect them to sound better if you left them in their original cabinet and simply placed the cabinet in the console firing out the hole left by the 12" woofer.
Sounds like a cool project, though.
What I should have said is that the baskets on the zeniths resonate a lot. I can tap the cone with a finger and both feel and hear the basket resonate. When we did a tone sweep with them, they ended up resonating mostly in the lower frequencies, if I recall correctly. I was disappointing in their performance as I also saw they were highly regarded. Mine sounded muddy.
I don't believe anything is blown or out of alignment, as they move and I can't hear any rubbing. They just don't make clean bass.
Volume never went above halfway, (It was plenty loud then!) so I don't think that was an issue.
I think the zeniths suffer from old-itis more than anything, but I don't really know as I've never had another pair. I think the cones are on the softer side and the excursion is pretty low overall.
Nice job.
If I ever find a console with the woodwork in good shape I would like to restore one. I would change out the turntable for something with better tracking like a SL-1200, but otherwise would keep it pretty much stock.
Last console I got was setting in the weather waiting for the trash collectors to get it. I got it for free, but the amp chassis was all that was worth salvaging. Speakers were rotted, wood splitting, etc.
If I ever find a console with the woodwork in good shape I would like to restore one. I would change out the turntable for something with better tracking like a SL-1200, but otherwise would keep it pretty much stock.
Last console I got was setting in the weather waiting for the trash collectors to get it. I got it for free, but the amp chassis was all that was worth salvaging. Speakers were rotted, wood splitting, etc.
More than ten years ago I've been given a Nordmende Arabelle Stereo console for free, made in about 1965. The schematic is here: Nordmende 4-683 Service . Yes, it is one of those already mentioned 2 x ELL80 designs.
In contrast to any documentation that can be found in the WWW my unit has got three speakers per channel instead of only two. The Dual 1011 TT it originally was fitted with had been replaced by a 1234. It works nearly flawlessly, besides some crackling potentiometers and switches.
At the right hand side of the radio there's an empty compartment for a tape recorder, which is, same as the TT at the left, accessible from the top and usually covered by a lid.
Main issue with consoles of this kind is that they're bulky and heavy. I definitely don't have enough space to put and run it. As one spoke in the wooden speaker grille of the right channel is already broken, which appears to be an irreparable defect, I'll someday scrap it, too, keeping just the radio chassis, maybe the speakers also, and built a nice wooden enclosure around the chassis. Maybe I'll also replace the valuable ELL80's by two pairs of EL95's/6DL5's, even cheap 6AQ5's or 6BM5's would do if I'd replace both dial bulbs by LED's. We'll see...
Best regards!
In contrast to any documentation that can be found in the WWW my unit has got three speakers per channel instead of only two. The Dual 1011 TT it originally was fitted with had been replaced by a 1234. It works nearly flawlessly, besides some crackling potentiometers and switches.
At the right hand side of the radio there's an empty compartment for a tape recorder, which is, same as the TT at the left, accessible from the top and usually covered by a lid.
Main issue with consoles of this kind is that they're bulky and heavy. I definitely don't have enough space to put and run it. As one spoke in the wooden speaker grille of the right channel is already broken, which appears to be an irreparable defect, I'll someday scrap it, too, keeping just the radio chassis, maybe the speakers also, and built a nice wooden enclosure around the chassis. Maybe I'll also replace the valuable ELL80's by two pairs of EL95's/6DL5's, even cheap 6AQ5's or 6BM5's would do if I'd replace both dial bulbs by LED's. We'll see...
Best regards!
i have this one in great condition
I will probably turn it into a console (hanging on the wall and without his feet) to put my TV
I will probably turn it into a console (hanging on the wall and without his feet) to put my TV
Bass, especially low bass, is not their strong suit. I don't believe any of the old consoles were known for tight, punchy, bass performance.
I've tried them full range, by themselves, and they sound good but they really shine as very wide range "mids", so to speak. They are an incredibly "live" sounding speaker. I'm using them on their original baffles, though, so a larger open baffle design might yield a bit more bass. I'm using them in a tri-amped setup.
I'd suggest using them with a sub crossed at 100hz or a bit higher. Then use a simple first order crossover to your tweeter above 8k or 10k for a little more high end detail.
And not all speakers are designed to have a lot of excursion. I've always considered that parameter to be more indicative of the type of cabinet a speaker is designed to be mounted in, although I'm no speaker expert. That's why I suggested that your little BIC woofers, which were probably designed for a small bass reflex cabinet, might not sound their best when thrown into an open baffle, which they definitely were not designed for.
Sorry for dropping the ball on replying to everyone, but here I am!
TheGimp,
I'm sure you'll find a good one someday! At least you got an amp out of that one, right?
Kay Pirinha,
Three speakers, huh? Guess you lucked out. 🙂 Have you tried squirting some isopropyl alcohol into the potentiometers? (While it's off and unplugged, of course!) These consoles are certainly big, it took a lot of convincing to get the parents to allow mine in the living room.
Huggygood, that's one snazzy looking console! When you go through modification, see if you can brace the inside of the console. it made a huge difference in mine.
FlaCharlie
They are very nice midranges, (tried them out for a bit) but my issue is one of space. I've already got a giant record console in the living room, and adding another big box for a sub won't sit well with my parents. For me, all modifications have to fit inside the console, and the Zentiths, while they were excellent mids, didn't do lower end very well. It's not their fault, but, in my opinion, it was better for me to swap em with those BIC ones, lose some mid quality, and gain an overall better sound. They do have pretty darn impressive bass even in an open back system, and I'm comparing them to the modern floor speakers next to them with 15" woofers. 🙂 I don't regret swapping them out, but that doesn't make the Zeniths bad, just not my taste. I'll see if I can borrow a professional microphone sometime and record a bit.
TheGimp,
I'm sure you'll find a good one someday! At least you got an amp out of that one, right?
Kay Pirinha,
Three speakers, huh? Guess you lucked out. 🙂 Have you tried squirting some isopropyl alcohol into the potentiometers? (While it's off and unplugged, of course!) These consoles are certainly big, it took a lot of convincing to get the parents to allow mine in the living room.
Huggygood, that's one snazzy looking console! When you go through modification, see if you can brace the inside of the console. it made a huge difference in mine.
FlaCharlie
They are very nice midranges, (tried them out for a bit) but my issue is one of space. I've already got a giant record console in the living room, and adding another big box for a sub won't sit well with my parents. For me, all modifications have to fit inside the console, and the Zentiths, while they were excellent mids, didn't do lower end very well. It's not their fault, but, in my opinion, it was better for me to swap em with those BIC ones, lose some mid quality, and gain an overall better sound. They do have pretty darn impressive bass even in an open back system, and I'm comparing them to the modern floor speakers next to them with 15" woofers. 🙂 I don't regret swapping them out, but that doesn't make the Zeniths bad, just not my taste. I'll see if I can borrow a professional microphone sometime and record a bit.
No, I didn't yet. I might perform it when the transplantation into a smaller enclosure some day will come true 😉.
Btw, here's a catalogue side with my unit. It's the one at the bottom. Note it is 152 centimeters/5 ft wide:
Attachments
For those who are interested, I finally got a decent microphone. Obviously the console sounds a bit better in real life, but this should at least give an idea. you'll have to excuse the background noises, as recording anything with siblings around is difficult.
zenith mk2608.mp3 - Google Drive
zenith mk2608.mp3 - Google Drive
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