for fun i have tried to build a small 3-way, with 1” dome tweeter and 2” dome mid and 6” cone woofer, this far i am not sure it is any better then a straight 2-way using the same dome tweeter and 6” woofer, they sure sound different, by compersion the 2-way sounds edgy and bright and a bit nervous while the 3-way sounds polite and rounded and darker. The 2-way sounds more wild and fun and the 3-way sounds like an old person. Both speakers are built to measure similar both on and off axis.
what is your opinion on such speakers, a 2-way vs a small 3-way?
what is your opinion on such speakers, a 2-way vs a small 3-way?
There must be some measureable difference. You say they were intended to measure the same on/off, does that mean you crossed the two way rather low? Did you figure the verticals into the power you estimated/calculated?
Best 3way is 4way...
Post data.
Your claim that they measure similar but sound very different must be a mistake. Either you do not measure right, or you are measuring not relevant stuff.
For sure they do not measure identical, but i tried my very best to tune both crossovers to the same frequency responses targets both on and off axis
Yes the 3-way can handle higher spl without sounding stressed, the 3-way sounds more polite at all sound levels compared to the 2-way, but the 2-way sounds more energized to me, more alive, so i am wondering if this i just me or do others think the same, or does everyone think a small 3-way is always better then a 2-way?
What (3) crossover frequencies did you use and did you measure both horizontal and vertical before and after crossing, or at least simulate the same? What baffle configurations did you use?
Its highly unlikely they have of axis response identical. That would be hard to achieve.
Other thing is resistance accross fr range. I doubt its the same. Considering significantly more complex crossover for 3way. Perhaps amp is sensitive to resistance dips.
Unless you post exact data, this is just theoretical.
In 2way bookshelf, you have too many compromises...if you select big midbass, it will beam too soon and its narrow directivity will not match with wide dispersion of dome tweeter at crossover point. Off axis will suck as will total presentation. Speakers with messed up off axis do not perform well.
If you select small midbass, you get better mid, but poor bass. All compromises.
With sub should be ok, than again, now its 3way...
If you select small midbass, you get better mid, but poor bass. All compromises.
With sub should be ok, than again, now its 3way...
I have heard many 2-ways, big and small ones that sound very good, i would not consider any of them to have much compromises unless you need very low freq output and or high sound level output. I have tried some fullrange drivers (vifa, visaton and faital pro) mated with a large woofer, which is not my cup of tea
Depending on your target a 2-way should be adequate. Now if you’re after wide dispersion, a 6” starts beaming below 1kHz already, so in that case a mid (dome or 3 to 4” cone) should cure that. It brings 3/4” tweeters within reach and with that wide dispersion up to 20kHz.
3-ways are a handful: 6 amplifier channels with a big active filter project just to build a stereo pair, so I can see the appeal of passive crossovers and just the peace of mind if it's a 2-way.
Apples-to-apples, if you devote X hours to a nice crossover, enclosures, etc, the 2-way may end up being more refined compared to a 3-way that was rushed, so it's hard to say.
Apples-to-apples, if you devote X hours to a nice crossover, enclosures, etc, the 2-way may end up being more refined compared to a 3-way that was rushed, so it's hard to say.
Hmm, 'full range' = ~16 - 22 kHz = ln(22000/16)/ln(2) = ~10.425 octaves.
Drivers are historically (5) octaves at most, so for a 2way/coax the acoustic power mean = sqrt(16*22000) = ~593 Hz XO, so typically used a compression horn for the HF whereas a 3way/triax = 10.425/3 = ~3.475 octave spreads = 16*2^3.475 = ~178 Hz XO, 178*2^3.475 = ~1978 Hz, so at a glance the better choice overall.
For best results though, redo the math using the desired low, high corner frequencies or if wanting just a two way, figure what's the best wide BW overall allowing for a (specific) separate sub and/or added super tweeter.
Drivers are historically (5) octaves at most, so for a 2way/coax the acoustic power mean = sqrt(16*22000) = ~593 Hz XO, so typically used a compression horn for the HF whereas a 3way/triax = 10.425/3 = ~3.475 octave spreads = 16*2^3.475 = ~178 Hz XO, 178*2^3.475 = ~1978 Hz, so at a glance the better choice overall.
For best results though, redo the math using the desired low, high corner frequencies or if wanting just a two way, figure what's the best wide BW overall allowing for a (specific) separate sub and/or added super tweeter.
When stores were demonstrating quality 3-ways, (1970-74) (AR3, KLH5) Home Entertainment was demonstrating on Simon & Garfunkel. No way to tell how they really sounded for difficult tracks not tenor voice+acoustic guitar.
Best speaker I've ever heard on difficult tracks, say Beethoven Appassionata on Steinway grand or ZZTop Afterburner, is a 2 way. 15" woofer + 1.4" CD. I've lost hearing above 14 khz in the interim. So missing 17.5-20 khz of the CD is not a problem. Crossover is 1.8 khz 12 db/octave, passive. Peavey engineered out the beaming from the woofer, -6db over 90 deg horizontal. Nowadays only consumer speakers in my flyover city are at Best Buy, and they don't demonstrate any speaker.
I have a pair of 3 ways I bought for $5 the pair at a charity resale shop. 1"+2"+6.5" unless one of the little holes is a port. They sound pretty good, but typical boom box bass, no real grunt on A0 to G1 (piano notes 27.5 hz to 49) I use the no-name 3 ways on television sound.
If you don't want to post frequency responses, try white noise 3/4 second or more. I used Audacity, measured 6' away from speaker front, 4000 samples.
Edgy & bright vs Full & rounded are not reproducable descriptions. I try to reproduce piano because I can hear what one sounds like at the Center for the Arts or some churches. 99.99% of speakers can't sound like that. I have one in the music room across from the speakers (a Steinway console with fake interference bass, not 9' strings). Reason for ZZtop, those bass drum hits would scoop on some box designs. Decend or ascend in pitch. I marched 12' from 2 bass drums in high school, I know what those should sound like too. Afterburner bass drum is so clean it might be electronic.
Best speaker I've ever heard on difficult tracks, say Beethoven Appassionata on Steinway grand or ZZTop Afterburner, is a 2 way. 15" woofer + 1.4" CD. I've lost hearing above 14 khz in the interim. So missing 17.5-20 khz of the CD is not a problem. Crossover is 1.8 khz 12 db/octave, passive. Peavey engineered out the beaming from the woofer, -6db over 90 deg horizontal. Nowadays only consumer speakers in my flyover city are at Best Buy, and they don't demonstrate any speaker.
I have a pair of 3 ways I bought for $5 the pair at a charity resale shop. 1"+2"+6.5" unless one of the little holes is a port. They sound pretty good, but typical boom box bass, no real grunt on A0 to G1 (piano notes 27.5 hz to 49) I use the no-name 3 ways on television sound.
If you don't want to post frequency responses, try white noise 3/4 second or more. I used Audacity, measured 6' away from speaker front, 4000 samples.
Edgy & bright vs Full & rounded are not reproducable descriptions. I try to reproduce piano because I can hear what one sounds like at the Center for the Arts or some churches. 99.99% of speakers can't sound like that. I have one in the music room across from the speakers (a Steinway console with fake interference bass, not 9' strings). Reason for ZZtop, those bass drum hits would scoop on some box designs. Decend or ascend in pitch. I marched 12' from 2 bass drums in high school, I know what those should sound like too. Afterburner bass drum is so clean it might be electronic.
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