Hi
Obviously 2 way designs are easier and cheaper to build and simpler in the crossover side of things.
However, most of the three ways I've heard sound much better in the mids especially when given lots of power. Downside is that they are more expensive to build and harder to get things right in the crossover.
So, what do I really have to worry about when contemplating the design of a 3 way system AND, all things being equal, are 3 ways inherently more capable than 2 ways?
Thanks in advance.
Mos
Obviously 2 way designs are easier and cheaper to build and simpler in the crossover side of things.
However, most of the three ways I've heard sound much better in the mids especially when given lots of power. Downside is that they are more expensive to build and harder to get things right in the crossover.
So, what do I really have to worry about when contemplating the design of a 3 way system AND, all things being equal, are 3 ways inherently more capable than 2 ways?
Thanks in advance.
Mos
The three way sound sometimes a lot better but ya they are harder to build and if your radio or what ever is not very good don't bother.???
Mos fetish,
What drivers were you going to go with? What building experience have you had? Have you got the right measuring equipment and software?
I haven't built either a 2 or 3 way system but what I've read, without the measuring equipment, even a 2-way can be challenging to get right (assuming you don't build from a kit).
I plan to try a 2-way in 2 - 3 months with "moderately" priced drivers, preferably with a crossover kit matching at least the woofer (driver selections restricted for us in NZ). I plan to make a simple impedance jig, buy an electret capsule for a mic and use Audua Speaker Workshop (free).
Please let me know what you go with.
Cheers,
Dave.
What drivers were you going to go with? What building experience have you had? Have you got the right measuring equipment and software?
I haven't built either a 2 or 3 way system but what I've read, without the measuring equipment, even a 2-way can be challenging to get right (assuming you don't build from a kit).
I plan to try a 2-way in 2 - 3 months with "moderately" priced drivers, preferably with a crossover kit matching at least the woofer (driver selections restricted for us in NZ). I plan to make a simple impedance jig, buy an electret capsule for a mic and use Audua Speaker Workshop (free).
Please let me know what you go with.
Cheers,
Dave.
Dave
Here's my philosophy on the subject of speaker building.
Let's say there are 50 things you need to take into account when designing/building a loudspeaker, and let's say that, oh, 30 of those things are what you might call "esoteric". By that I mean things that will no doubt affect the performance of the speaker but will not, if left unattended to, essentially prevent you from building a decent sounding unit.
My intention is therefore to build a set of speakers that pay attention to the obvious fundamentals as I have come to understand them. I then intend to tune or tweak the speakers by ear. I think that there's a tendeny for the beginning speaker builder to worry too much about getting every little thing perfect before you proceed. Indeed, I think this is what may prevent many from even attempting to build something.
I suspect there's a lot of people like me who are very keen to build a good, solid, tuneful loudspeaker and leave it at that.
For years I've lived with a set of SPL 3000 2-ways (anyone else?) that have tended to annoy me more as time has gone by. I particularly notice the lack of good midrange in them compared with other speakers that my friends have and that's why I was toying with the idea of going for a 3-way design as all the best midrange I've heard has come from these configurations.
However, I think I'll begin with a set of 2-way bookshelf speakers that I can use in the bedroom or office.
Here's my philosophy on the subject of speaker building.
Let's say there are 50 things you need to take into account when designing/building a loudspeaker, and let's say that, oh, 30 of those things are what you might call "esoteric". By that I mean things that will no doubt affect the performance of the speaker but will not, if left unattended to, essentially prevent you from building a decent sounding unit.
My intention is therefore to build a set of speakers that pay attention to the obvious fundamentals as I have come to understand them. I then intend to tune or tweak the speakers by ear. I think that there's a tendeny for the beginning speaker builder to worry too much about getting every little thing perfect before you proceed. Indeed, I think this is what may prevent many from even attempting to build something.
I suspect there's a lot of people like me who are very keen to build a good, solid, tuneful loudspeaker and leave it at that.
For years I've lived with a set of SPL 3000 2-ways (anyone else?) that have tended to annoy me more as time has gone by. I particularly notice the lack of good midrange in them compared with other speakers that my friends have and that's why I was toying with the idea of going for a 3-way design as all the best midrange I've heard has come from these configurations.
However, I think I'll begin with a set of 2-way bookshelf speakers that I can use in the bedroom or office.
I've built (from scratch, i.e. all the construction, woodwork, electronics, etc) a pair of 3 driver 2-ways (MTM) and a pair of three driver 3-ways.
The 3-ways sound lots better but took many many times more work, research & tweaking to get them right.
The biggest thing that makes them difficult is the choice of midrange driver and it's specs and how it's crossed over to the others.
I eventually went with a bi-amped active crossover setup which took more money and electronics construction, but removed a great deal of the hair-pulling frustration of trying to get three drivers to sing sweetly together using passive crossovers.
By crossing between the woofer and mid with a 4th order linkwitz-riley active, I was able to avoid the problems you get trying not to cross in the human-ear-sensitive frequency region (supposedly around 600Hz - 2000Hz because it's our vocal range) with the typically available mid drivers and passive crossovers.
This becomes a huge pain in the butt because most mid drivers, especially the dome types, are resonant at 400Hz or more.
I have read in a few places that it's desirable to crossover at least an octave above resonance, which usually puts you right in the middle of that no-no frequency range.
You can cross closer to resonance if you use a higher order filter, since the rolloff will be steep enough to avoid resonance interactions, but then if you go passive - the higher order of crossover you use the more complexity and potential problems you introduce there!
If you can find a very high quality small diameter cone driver, this helps because they typically have much lower resonance, but if you want one that performs well in the higher frequencies you have to pay big $'s.
Anyway, I could go on and on, but I'd say that if you are a relative beginner, I'd recommend building a 2-way and pay particular attention to the woofer you buy. If you can afford one that has a good performance over the widest possible frequencies, you can avoid a lot of the crossover problems by using simple 1st order filters at higher frequencies. Then later if you want to add a mid you can leave the high pass where it is and just relieve the woofer a bit.
The 3-ways sound lots better but took many many times more work, research & tweaking to get them right.
The biggest thing that makes them difficult is the choice of midrange driver and it's specs and how it's crossed over to the others.
I eventually went with a bi-amped active crossover setup which took more money and electronics construction, but removed a great deal of the hair-pulling frustration of trying to get three drivers to sing sweetly together using passive crossovers.
By crossing between the woofer and mid with a 4th order linkwitz-riley active, I was able to avoid the problems you get trying not to cross in the human-ear-sensitive frequency region (supposedly around 600Hz - 2000Hz because it's our vocal range) with the typically available mid drivers and passive crossovers.
This becomes a huge pain in the butt because most mid drivers, especially the dome types, are resonant at 400Hz or more.
I have read in a few places that it's desirable to crossover at least an octave above resonance, which usually puts you right in the middle of that no-no frequency range.
You can cross closer to resonance if you use a higher order filter, since the rolloff will be steep enough to avoid resonance interactions, but then if you go passive - the higher order of crossover you use the more complexity and potential problems you introduce there!
If you can find a very high quality small diameter cone driver, this helps because they typically have much lower resonance, but if you want one that performs well in the higher frequencies you have to pay big $'s.
Anyway, I could go on and on, but I'd say that if you are a relative beginner, I'd recommend building a 2-way and pay particular attention to the woofer you buy. If you can afford one that has a good performance over the widest possible frequencies, you can avoid a lot of the crossover problems by using simple 1st order filters at higher frequencies. Then later if you want to add a mid you can leave the high pass where it is and just relieve the woofer a bit.
Is this a valid option?
Here are my thoughts for a future project for me, a beginner. I'm currently building some bookshelf speakers of someone else's proven design. I figured that I could build some tower speakers where the mid and tweeter portion are identical to the bookshelf's I'm building now, and in the space remaining below and behind that cabinet volume would be the voulme for a side firing 8" or 10". To avoid crossover design, I was planning on using a sub amp with speaker-level inputs and a built-in crossover, hopefully, a variable crossover.
What are the drawbacks of this? (Other than the cost of having to purchase two sub amps)
Here are my thoughts for a future project for me, a beginner. I'm currently building some bookshelf speakers of someone else's proven design. I figured that I could build some tower speakers where the mid and tweeter portion are identical to the bookshelf's I'm building now, and in the space remaining below and behind that cabinet volume would be the voulme for a side firing 8" or 10". To avoid crossover design, I was planning on using a sub amp with speaker-level inputs and a built-in crossover, hopefully, a variable crossover.
What are the drawbacks of this? (Other than the cost of having to purchase two sub amps)
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