Well I've been staring at my 2 Tuba 24's, I've used them as subs hi-passed 45 hz the sound is ok, but I also built 2 more partially built to load them with double BP102 each. I have put these cabs aside and started building a Cubo Sub 18" just looking at the Cubo on my building table 1/3 finished I think I wanna build more like 3 more and use the Tuba 24 as kick (80-225 Hz) and the Cubo Sub 35-80 Hz.
I just don't like the sound of the T24 it's not bassy if someone knows what I mean its sound is more of an upper bass like 55 Hz and up? I have put the 2 mouths together V plated and the SLA Pro's as tops, it's missing something. The SLA's are not comfortable at 125 Hz crossover point more like 200 Hz with the 6.5" mid woofer and piezos. This question was not answered in BFM site so I am putting it here that possibly someone can give me another suggestion. I have heard good sounding systems for PA and home system and I know when there is a hole in the frequency range it is designed for so I want to build 4 Cubo subs then put 2 T24's on top then an SLA Pro top each side of the stack for now. This will be used for bigger 300 plus venues for DJ playback. I also bought 2 EAW MQ 1364 mid horn from 250 Hz to 16 kHz from ebay and planning on reconing the 10" Eminence Kappa and rediagphram the 2" JBL 2445. Thanks for the help!
I just don't like the sound of the T24 it's not bassy if someone knows what I mean its sound is more of an upper bass like 55 Hz and up? I have put the 2 mouths together V plated and the SLA Pro's as tops, it's missing something. The SLA's are not comfortable at 125 Hz crossover point more like 200 Hz with the 6.5" mid woofer and piezos. This question was not answered in BFM site so I am putting it here that possibly someone can give me another suggestion. I have heard good sounding systems for PA and home system and I know when there is a hole in the frequency range it is designed for so I want to build 4 Cubo subs then put 2 T24's on top then an SLA Pro top each side of the stack for now. This will be used for bigger 300 plus venues for DJ playback. I also bought 2 EAW MQ 1364 mid horn from 250 Hz to 16 kHz from ebay and planning on reconing the 10" Eminence Kappa and rediagphram the 2" JBL 2445. Thanks for the help!
What are you using to EQ the Tubas? If the answer to that is nothing then that is likely your problem, DSP is not optional with systems like this. The Cubo doesn't sound right without EQ either and combining them with tubas will definitely not work better without even more DSP processing.
Using BerryDCX and Dbx 231 EQ but flat crossover point is 125 Hz between Tuba 24's and SLA Pro's.
Have you tried running the Tubas up to 200hz?
Have you measured them? They don't have a flat response.. nothing but a large reflex sub has a flat response so that isn't unusual, but that doesn't mean you can't get there and they will sound much better if EQ'd flat. You would accomplish this with the parametric filters in the DCX not with the graphic EQ, all you need is a measurement mic, a USB computer interface and a software package like REW which is free.
Have you measured them? They don't have a flat response.. nothing but a large reflex sub has a flat response so that isn't unusual, but that doesn't mean you can't get there and they will sound much better if EQ'd flat. You would accomplish this with the parametric filters in the DCX not with the graphic EQ, all you need is a measurement mic, a USB computer interface and a software package like REW which is free.
So you're saying that this is possible by using the parametric from the DCX and a measuring mic , plus the software? I need it to go as high as 200 Hz the Tuba 24 and the Cubo sub from 35 Hz to 80 Hz?
This setup would be a better setup I think, can you help me setup the components you listed above?
Instead of me building more cabs like ES18BPH.
Thanks!
This setup would be a better setup I think, can you help me setup the components you listed above?
Instead of me building more cabs like ES18BPH.
Thanks!
What I suggest you try first is to just move the crossover between the tubas and SLAs up to 200hz to make sure they can do it and sound half decent, if not then your other plan won't work at all.
I have something similar test system here, I have a copy of REW on my laptop, I have a Dayton EMM-6 test mic, and I use a small Mackie mixer as the mic to computer interface.. the mixer has phantom power for the mic and a USB interface. The procedure is you setup the system and take a response measurement of the speaker, then add a filter in the DCX to correct part of the response, then take another measurement to see how well the filter performed. You can then tweak the filter and confirm with another measurement or move on to the next target. And you don't try to flatten every little hump, use the minimum number of filters you can to get the general shape you want and call it good. And one other note.. you cannot measure subs indoors you must be outdoors and well away from buildings, if you try to do it inside the measurement will be heavily influenced by the room which means you will see large peaks and nulls that aren't really the fault of the speaker.
Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone
I have something similar test system here, I have a copy of REW on my laptop, I have a Dayton EMM-6 test mic, and I use a small Mackie mixer as the mic to computer interface.. the mixer has phantom power for the mic and a USB interface. The procedure is you setup the system and take a response measurement of the speaker, then add a filter in the DCX to correct part of the response, then take another measurement to see how well the filter performed. You can then tweak the filter and confirm with another measurement or move on to the next target. And you don't try to flatten every little hump, use the minimum number of filters you can to get the general shape you want and call it good. And one other note.. you cannot measure subs indoors you must be outdoors and well away from buildings, if you try to do it inside the measurement will be heavily influenced by the room which means you will see large peaks and nulls that aren't really the fault of the speaker.
Dayton Audio EMM-6 Electret Measurement Microphone
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Couple other questions,
Did you build the SLA with 2 or 4 6" drivers?
And what crossover settings are you using? Like crossover slope and type, and what delay are you applying to the SLAa?
Did you build the SLA with 2 or 4 6" drivers?
And what crossover settings are you using? Like crossover slope and type, and what delay are you applying to the SLAa?
Hi conanski I used 4 Faital 6FE200 6 1/2" mid woofer seems the same specs with the recommended Eminence Alpha 6. I am using 125 Hz
crossover point from Tuba 24 to SLA Pro
12 dB Butterworth no delay I think. There is a sound guy that set it up and stored it in the DCX we tuned the Tuba only outside his shop abeam 10' garage door. So as to have the mouth of the Tuba down cement floor as reflected no buildings in front. And the damn thing kicked hard 100-180Hz, hardly any lower bass as I said that was only 1 cab I brought to his shop for him to setup the DCX so I don't have to mess with it. He did told me high passed it at 45 Hz. I used my eq on my cheap Pioneer DJ mixer DDJ SB2 to tune the SLA seems happy higher crossover point not 125 Hz I have not done this yet. These cabs were built as per BFM plans no wadding inside the Tuba driver compartment. That mic seems a good value for $49.
crossover point from Tuba 24 to SLA Pro
12 dB Butterworth no delay I think. There is a sound guy that set it up and stored it in the DCX we tuned the Tuba only outside his shop abeam 10' garage door. So as to have the mouth of the Tuba down cement floor as reflected no buildings in front. And the damn thing kicked hard 100-180Hz, hardly any lower bass as I said that was only 1 cab I brought to his shop for him to setup the DCX so I don't have to mess with it. He did told me high passed it at 45 Hz. I used my eq on my cheap Pioneer DJ mixer DDJ SB2 to tune the SLA seems happy higher crossover point not 125 Hz I have not done this yet. These cabs were built as per BFM plans no wadding inside the Tuba driver compartment. That mic seems a good value for $49.
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Yeah that is no good, you should be using 24dB LR for the crossovers and 24dB BW for the high pass on the Tubas. And you definitely need some delay on the SLAs.. this would explain why you feel these boxes are lacking something, without delay there is a serious phase mis match between them and the subs. With a test mic the DCX will set this delay automatically if you follow the procedure in the manual, Behringer also has a test mic for a good price I think it's called the ECM8000. I'd suggest you change the crossover to LR24 on all outputs and then try different crossover frequencies including 80hz, this will drastically cut the upper bass output from the Tubas and make them sound more bassy.
Yeah that is typical of horn subs and it just exposes how much they need EQ. Bottom line is you're nowhere close to getting the most you can out of the gear you have so I'd suggest you work on that first before you go and make the system even more complicated.
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OK I just saw a good idea for EQ over on the BFM forum and I suggest you try it out. Set the high pass on the Tubas at 45hz Bw24dB and then set the crossover at 60hz but LR12. Now set the crossover for the SLAs at 100hz LR24. This looks weird I know but it will compensate for the rising response of the Tubas so they should sound more natural and bassy. Note you will have to turn up the tubas a little more because they won't be as loud initially, and for the time being go get a measurement mic like the Behringer or the Dayton and run the AutoAlign procedure in the DCX and come back and let me know what delay settings it come up with.
I have the Mackie proFX8 right now, I had a Tascam US122 originally and that worked great but the mixer is more useful for what I do so I sold the Tascam.
REW is a free download from their website, I believe you have to register to get the file but there is no cost. REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software
Ok conanski, I will try and get that mic first just did Christmas shopping with the mrs. and let me tell you I may have to buy this in mid January too many expense at the moment and going to go Christmas party next week for they are my wife's friends. She doesn't know it but I am going for the gold and ordered more 18 mm BB and 15 mm BB for my 4 Cubo Subs 18 and Cubo kick 15". I need to build a bigger system for next year's festivals that I hope to get a gig or 2 with. I found a nice CNC wood shop willing to do a job here or there. But I need to experiment with this more saving up for the $49 mic.
Sounds good. What drivers are you thinking of using in the Cubos? I build a 15" Cubo extended for testing and I have to say it does a pretty good job so I bet 18s would be even better. I also experimented with barn doors or horn extensions and that produced impressive results, I could get pants flapping lowend from a single cab.
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