Hi!
I have lived with a crappy bluetooth speaker for years now and it's time to upgrade. I have realised I do not have the time, place or skill to design a speaker myself but I do have 2 hypex FA123 amps collecting dust from the time when I thought I did!
I was looking to buy when I stumbled across the SEAS King Ro4Y MKIII kit yesterday. It uses the hypex FA253 and they even provide the crossover files etc so you don't even have to design the filters yourself! This was a revelation to me, I did not know these kinds of kits existed!
Since I already own the FA123 I am now searching for a 3-way kit using the Hypex FA123 and where the filters are provided. I feel confident enough to assemble everything myself, I might 3dprint everything even since woodworking in an apartment isn't fun.
What I have found so far is the aforementioned seas kit (If the FA123 is enough for this kit)
https://www.seas.no/index.php?optio...=583:seas-kingro4y-mk-iii&catid=66&Itemid=345
And then @Kwesi in another thread pointed to a german site with a couple of kits that are extremely tempting, if anyone knows anything about this company/these kits please feel free to share! Bliesma tweet/dome mid plus satori wo24p woofer/s.
https://www.ari-acoustics.de/c/opera
I am leaning towards the bookshelf (Ernani) from ari-acoustics or their double woofer floorstander (Nabucco) but would like to know if anyone has any experience with this company and if their kits are any good? And if so, bookshelf or floorstander with my FA123?? What would you choose if we disregard the price? One is designed for the 123 it seems while the other can use the 123 with a small hit do dynamic range?
Any other suggestions in a similar vein?
Only for listening to and recording music/jamming (guitar/piano) in a non-serious way, will be moving soon so the room is not a constant but will be in a living room of probably a smaller size for all to enjoy. I have no idea what kind of speakers I prefer so all suggestions welcome?
Thank you in advance for any suggestions/tips, I would consider any design as long as the filter files are available.
I have lived with a crappy bluetooth speaker for years now and it's time to upgrade. I have realised I do not have the time, place or skill to design a speaker myself but I do have 2 hypex FA123 amps collecting dust from the time when I thought I did!
I was looking to buy when I stumbled across the SEAS King Ro4Y MKIII kit yesterday. It uses the hypex FA253 and they even provide the crossover files etc so you don't even have to design the filters yourself! This was a revelation to me, I did not know these kinds of kits existed!
Since I already own the FA123 I am now searching for a 3-way kit using the Hypex FA123 and where the filters are provided. I feel confident enough to assemble everything myself, I might 3dprint everything even since woodworking in an apartment isn't fun.
What I have found so far is the aforementioned seas kit (If the FA123 is enough for this kit)
https://www.seas.no/index.php?optio...=583:seas-kingro4y-mk-iii&catid=66&Itemid=345
And then @Kwesi in another thread pointed to a german site with a couple of kits that are extremely tempting, if anyone knows anything about this company/these kits please feel free to share! Bliesma tweet/dome mid plus satori wo24p woofer/s.
https://www.ari-acoustics.de/c/opera
I am leaning towards the bookshelf (Ernani) from ari-acoustics or their double woofer floorstander (Nabucco) but would like to know if anyone has any experience with this company and if their kits are any good? And if so, bookshelf or floorstander with my FA123?? What would you choose if we disregard the price? One is designed for the 123 it seems while the other can use the 123 with a small hit do dynamic range?
Any other suggestions in a similar vein?
Only for listening to and recording music/jamming (guitar/piano) in a non-serious way, will be moving soon so the room is not a constant but will be in a living room of probably a smaller size for all to enjoy. I have no idea what kind of speakers I prefer so all suggestions welcome?
Thank you in advance for any suggestions/tips, I would consider any design as long as the filter files are available.
Hi,
Udo Wohlgemuth has developed several DIY kits with Fusion modules:
https://lautsprecherselberbauen.de/Ceram-Aktiv
https://lautsprecherselberbauen.de/BelAir-Aktiv
https://lautsprecherselberbauen.de/SB-Aktiv
For every kit there are links on each website to the build documentation also with lots of measurements included.
Well, he sells complete kits with the xover plans or filters as his IP. But when you ask he might be willing to give away the setups when you order just all drivers from him, usually he is a handy guy and selling "just" driver sets is better than selling nothing....
What I can offer is a speaker from me also utilizing FA123 with possible driver configurations
Seas DXT or TAC/GB
SB Acoustics SB15NBAC30-4
1x or 2x Scan Speak 26W/8534G00
(SB15 and 26W with bucking magnets and SB15 and Seas with passive notches in series fighting cone ringing, all optional)
I've named it "Scandinavian Connection":
With DXT and 1x 26W in vented tuning the system won 2019 German IGDH DIY contest:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/_hb/albums/72157710788647918/
https://www.diy-hifi-forum.eu/forum...CD-GB-DXT-SB15NBAC30-4-26W-8534G00-HypexFA123
If that combination and style is somehow attractive to you I might support with a matching filter setup, I have enough data here...
Best Regards
Peter
Udo Wohlgemuth has developed several DIY kits with Fusion modules:
https://lautsprecherselberbauen.de/Ceram-Aktiv
https://lautsprecherselberbauen.de/BelAir-Aktiv
https://lautsprecherselberbauen.de/SB-Aktiv
For every kit there are links on each website to the build documentation also with lots of measurements included.
Well, he sells complete kits with the xover plans or filters as his IP. But when you ask he might be willing to give away the setups when you order just all drivers from him, usually he is a handy guy and selling "just" driver sets is better than selling nothing....
What I can offer is a speaker from me also utilizing FA123 with possible driver configurations
Seas DXT or TAC/GB
SB Acoustics SB15NBAC30-4
1x or 2x Scan Speak 26W/8534G00
(SB15 and 26W with bucking magnets and SB15 and Seas with passive notches in series fighting cone ringing, all optional)
I've named it "Scandinavian Connection":
With DXT and 1x 26W in vented tuning the system won 2019 German IGDH DIY contest:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/_hb/albums/72157710788647918/
https://www.diy-hifi-forum.eu/forum...CD-GB-DXT-SB15NBAC30-4-26W-8534G00-HypexFA123
If that combination and style is somehow attractive to you I might support with a matching filter setup, I have enough data here...
Best Regards
Peter
Another option, which is an easy build, that would work well is LX-Mini +2
That is on the special SEAS ROY's for subs.
I am quite sure someone transformed the filters from miniDSP to FusionAmps on that also. (it is not copy paste).
https://www.linkwitzlab.com/LXmini/LXmini+2.htm
https://linkwitz.store/product/lxmini2-kit/
Having the glue curing is what took the most time on my mini build ;-)
No woodworking and nothing that cannot be handled in a couple of afternoons.
They throw a great 3D phantom scene.
That is on the special SEAS ROY's for subs.
I am quite sure someone transformed the filters from miniDSP to FusionAmps on that also. (it is not copy paste).
https://www.linkwitzlab.com/LXmini/LXmini+2.htm
https://linkwitz.store/product/lxmini2-kit/
Having the glue curing is what took the most time on my mini build ;-)
No woodworking and nothing that cannot be handled in a couple of afternoons.
They throw a great 3D phantom scene.
Thank you for the suggestions!
@Kwesi i liked your build more than Udo's to be honest they look really cool however Udo had one called ceram 85 aktiv that uses the exact same drivers that i had planned to use for my build hence i have everything except the filters and the enclosure at hand collecting dust so that one would be the smart budget wise move for me to make... so thank you! (I would of course be willing to pay for the ID even if I don't buy anything directly from him)
And @Norgaard your suggestion was really fun! With a 3dprinter anything is possible so that was really interesting but maybe a bit out there at the moment but i don't know?! will have to run everything by "the government" (WAF)
@Kwesi i liked your build more than Udo's to be honest they look really cool however Udo had one called ceram 85 aktiv that uses the exact same drivers that i had planned to use for my build hence i have everything except the filters and the enclosure at hand collecting dust so that one would be the smart budget wise move for me to make... so thank you! (I would of course be willing to pay for the ID even if I don't buy anything directly from him)
And @Norgaard your suggestion was really fun! With a 3dprinter anything is possible so that was really interesting but maybe a bit out there at the moment but i don't know?! will have to run everything by "the government" (WAF)
If you are into the 3D print, recently some files became available for this - it also opens up the possibility to make a slimmer more elegant design - along the lines of the Sirius.
A good friend of mine made a rendering along the lines of "LX minion serious" 🤣 - which reminds me that he actually did do the full filter transform to FA253
Anyway, the sound from these is not a joke.
That fusion amp asks for a TMM or MTM config. You could recreate the SB Rinajani in an activer version as example (plans are on SB site), The Gema kit is also one you could build.
Maybe consider the overall cost to build something using the Hypex amps against just buying something on the used market. If you use the FA123’s your cost will obviously be lower but you may find that you will want the extra power of the 253’s or perhaps the 503’s. Then of course your cost goes way up. It will come down to room size and the quality of bass response you want from your system. I’m certainly no expert but 100 watts for the tweeter is overkill. I believe the 123’s output to mid and woofer is 125 watts. Which may run short on power for the woofer during vigorous play. A number of the suggestions offered here look reasonable and may work very well for you. Otoh, you are still taking a chance. Please understand I’m not trying to derail your desire to build something, I’m just trying to offer another perspective.
However you decide I hope it is an interesting project that you thoroughly enjoy
However you decide I hope it is an interesting project that you thoroughly enjoy
Thank you for your insights!
The Gema kit is interesting, have not seen it before since it is new?
I understand the 123 might be underpowered but there are still a few options for it available anyhow and i would probably never need or dare to crank it up since i will probably be living in an apartment for the foreseeable future and i am a very contientous neighbor. As you pointed out @Jcris i am already contemplating the fa 253 haha but i need to be smart with my money, and since i already own the fa123 and am probably too lazy to sell them in order to buy on the used market (which i have scanned daily for a year and I would probably still not settle for anything sub 3k dollars genelec/neumann).
https://www.ari-acoustics.de/p/ernani
This for example uses a passive crossover for bliesma tweet/mid with the 100w output powering both and then using 2x125w for powering the satori woofer which kind of seems like an optimal choice considering my power constraints? Seriously considering this but have not been able to find any info on it other than the manufacturers website.
Another one i found is heissman DXT wave fusion XL which also uses the fa123:
https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/dxt-wave-xl-fusion/
So I am kind of debating between these two at the moment...
Another question is in what way i can modify the cabinets without changing the crossover?
Question 1: If i want really thick walls or a thicker baffle, then i would have to account for the loss of volume if i want the dimensions to stay the same. Could i in this case extend the enclosure depth-wise, say 10cm, without affecting the overall response?
Question 2: If i would like to modify the enclosure and add generously rounded edges, could i do this without affecting the overall response too much or could i maybe tweak the crossover in this case using a simple on axis measurement or do i need to rework the entire thing in this case? If i would have to rework everything with off axis measurements etc i would not contemplate this at all.
The Gema kit is interesting, have not seen it before since it is new?
I understand the 123 might be underpowered but there are still a few options for it available anyhow and i would probably never need or dare to crank it up since i will probably be living in an apartment for the foreseeable future and i am a very contientous neighbor. As you pointed out @Jcris i am already contemplating the fa 253 haha but i need to be smart with my money, and since i already own the fa123 and am probably too lazy to sell them in order to buy on the used market (which i have scanned daily for a year and I would probably still not settle for anything sub 3k dollars genelec/neumann).
https://www.ari-acoustics.de/p/ernani
This for example uses a passive crossover for bliesma tweet/mid with the 100w output powering both and then using 2x125w for powering the satori woofer which kind of seems like an optimal choice considering my power constraints? Seriously considering this but have not been able to find any info on it other than the manufacturers website.
Another one i found is heissman DXT wave fusion XL which also uses the fa123:
https://heissmann-acoustics.de/en/dxt-wave-xl-fusion/
So I am kind of debating between these two at the moment...
Another question is in what way i can modify the cabinets without changing the crossover?
Question 1: If i want really thick walls or a thicker baffle, then i would have to account for the loss of volume if i want the dimensions to stay the same. Could i in this case extend the enclosure depth-wise, say 10cm, without affecting the overall response?
Question 2: If i would like to modify the enclosure and add generously rounded edges, could i do this without affecting the overall response too much or could i maybe tweak the crossover in this case using a simple on axis measurement or do i need to rework the entire thing in this case? If i would have to rework everything with off axis measurements etc i would not contemplate this at all.
Internal chamber volumes should be identical to the original design if you want the intended bass response. Keep the front baffle and heights and driver spacings exactly as designed, but make the speaker deeper if you need to.
Round edges vs straight will change the diffraction response but probably not a big deal at the end of the day! For the Heissmann, he spends a lot of effort on specific baffle edges and shapes for the midrange and tweeter section, so I wouldn't deviate from that part.
I think these both look like very good options! Many light years away from a bluetooth speaker 😆
Round edges vs straight will change the diffraction response but probably not a big deal at the end of the day! For the Heissmann, he spends a lot of effort on specific baffle edges and shapes for the midrange and tweeter section, so I wouldn't deviate from that part.
I think these both look like very good options! Many light years away from a bluetooth speaker 😆
Haha yes that is my aim! Been using this 10 year old 100usd bluetooth speaker as my main system for the last five years.
But regarding round overs, since baffle dimensions are important i am wondering how you calculate the baffle dimension if you have large radius roundovers. Do you measure from the point where the round over starts or do you measure from where a certain angle starts or to the middle of the roundover (45 degrees) or how should i go about this? Seems simple but still not quite.
But regarding round overs, since baffle dimensions are important i am wondering how you calculate the baffle dimension if you have large radius roundovers. Do you measure from the point where the round over starts or do you measure from where a certain angle starts or to the middle of the roundover (45 degrees) or how should i go about this? Seems simple but still not quite.
Again, if it's the bass section, and we're talking about a small (1/4, 1/2, 3/4") roundover bit, I wouldn't worry about it!
The Heissmann kit looks like you should follow his design specifically for the mid and tweeter cabinet part. For the Ari Acoustics one, perhaps use a bit on the smaller side rather than the larger side.
The Heissmann kit looks like you should follow his design specifically for the mid and tweeter cabinet part. For the Ari Acoustics one, perhaps use a bit on the smaller side rather than the larger side.
Thank you for the clarification! And yes i was wondering about the ari acoustics kit, if i go with heissman i would not alter it in any way rather i would focus on how to achieve his design acceptably, would probably need to cnc the baffle at least.
Not to confuse the issue further,
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy
And
The Live Edge Dipoles took 1st Place at the Parts Express Speaker Design Competition August 4-5 in Ohio. 59 contestants. My Open Baffle design on a slab of live edge birch won top score in the Open Unlimited category.
Judge Jerry McNutt said, “The best way to not sound like a box is: Don’t use a box.” Listener comments: The Beryllium tweeters are extremely transparent; bass is rich, expansive and authoritative; thorough top-to-bottom coherence and integration; warm, ambient and enveloping...
I doubt that that the “live edge “ is suitable in an apartment, given your desire to be a good neighbor, but what a phenomenal design.
I’m enjoying this thread, so many great ideas coming forth
Best
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy
And
Live Edge Dipoles: 2023 Upgrade Advanced Application Notes
The Live Edge Dipoles took 1st Place at the Parts Express Speaker Design Competition August 4-5 in Ohio. 59 contestants. My Open Baffle design on a slab of live edge birch won top score in the Open Unlimited category.
Judge Jerry McNutt said, “The best way to not sound like a box is: Don’t use a box.” Listener comments: The Beryllium tweeters are extremely transparent; bass is rich, expansive and authoritative; thorough top-to-bottom coherence and integration; warm, ambient and enveloping...
I doubt that that the “live edge “ is suitable in an apartment, given your desire to be a good neighbor, but what a phenomenal design.
I’m enjoying this thread, so many great ideas coming forth
Best
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And,
I agree a round over or perhaps a chamfer along the tweeter/mid upper section is a good idea. Here’s a picture of my active 2way.
I agree a round over or perhaps a chamfer along the tweeter/mid upper section is a good idea. Here’s a picture of my active 2way.
Hypex FA123 and 253 are capable of 3-way, but can be set for 2-way too. The smaller one has less max power, but the differece is not big. Both use similar dsp, so you can copy whichever ready-made settings.
First choice is how tall speaker can be, will it be a floorstander or bookshelf/destop
First choice is how tall speaker can be, will it be a floorstander or bookshelf/destop
Thank you @Juhazi, good to know that they are interchangeable except for max output, that actually opens up some possibilities!
Here is one example, "little king aktiv" from lautsprechershop:
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/little_king_aktiv_en.htm
They had a bunch of different designs and you could search for keywords like "active" and i found many that uses the fa253. Wonder if the little king would work with the fa123 then if i can sacrifice some output which i wouldn't need anyway?
As you see i haven't even decided if i should go for compact book-shelf format or floor stander yet. I have always been a "studio monitor" kind of person but i am beginning to see the appeal of floorstanders now that i am older and less inclined to devote a whole part of the living room to a recording studio that won't see much use as a recording studio..
My better half actually said she prefers floor standers that blend in more nicely overall but something about a compact speaker capable of delivering compelling full range still feels very appealing.
Weird that so many diy kit manufacturers/vendors seem to be based in Germany? Seems like germans are really into diy audio!
Here is one example, "little king aktiv" from lautsprechershop:
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/little_king_aktiv_en.htm
They had a bunch of different designs and you could search for keywords like "active" and i found many that uses the fa253. Wonder if the little king would work with the fa123 then if i can sacrifice some output which i wouldn't need anyway?
As you see i haven't even decided if i should go for compact book-shelf format or floor stander yet. I have always been a "studio monitor" kind of person but i am beginning to see the appeal of floorstanders now that i am older and less inclined to devote a whole part of the living room to a recording studio that won't see much use as a recording studio..
My better half actually said she prefers floor standers that blend in more nicely overall but something about a compact speaker capable of delivering compelling full range still feels very appealing.
Weird that so many diy kit manufacturers/vendors seem to be based in Germany? Seems like germans are really into diy audio!
Visaton speakers are passive, but easy to convert to dsp-active https://www.visaton.de/en/products/hifi-surround-kits/3-way-speakers
SB Acoustics https://sbacoustics.com/product/sasandu-tx/ is top-notch
I warmly recommend WWMT towers, with 6,5-8" woofers, 4-5" cone mid and 1" tweeter (or SEAS DXT). Drivers are easily available, they don't have to be top-line and easy to keep in their comfort zone. Many good projects also here at diyaudio, for ideas. DSP settings should be done per measurements in a large space to avoid being mislead by reflections etc. Simulation isn't necessary because construction is basically sane.
Here more info about dsp settings schedule ( I followed these in 2013). Basically just eq each way first, then set xos, adjust gains and delays.
https://www.hifizine.com/2010/12/prototyping-4-way-open-baffle-speaker-with-the-minidsp-2x4/
https://www.hifizine.com/2011/03/refining-a-4-way-open-baffle-speaker-minidsp-2x4/
Please download Hypex HFD first and study some 3-way project file and check it's contents. (I can send one for you, contact with personal message). Ihave done two projects with FA123 and one with FA253
SB Acoustics https://sbacoustics.com/product/sasandu-tx/ is top-notch
I warmly recommend WWMT towers, with 6,5-8" woofers, 4-5" cone mid and 1" tweeter (or SEAS DXT). Drivers are easily available, they don't have to be top-line and easy to keep in their comfort zone. Many good projects also here at diyaudio, for ideas. DSP settings should be done per measurements in a large space to avoid being mislead by reflections etc. Simulation isn't necessary because construction is basically sane.
Here more info about dsp settings schedule ( I followed these in 2013). Basically just eq each way first, then set xos, adjust gains and delays.
https://www.hifizine.com/2010/12/prototyping-4-way-open-baffle-speaker-with-the-minidsp-2x4/
https://www.hifizine.com/2011/03/refining-a-4-way-open-baffle-speaker-minidsp-2x4/
Please download Hypex HFD first and study some 3-way project file and check it's contents. (I can send one for you, contact with personal message). Ihave done two projects with FA123 and one with FA253
I think the 123’s would absolutely work. As you said with some sacrifice on the low end especially in a smaller room. One caveat, the cutout on the back would be different but you could compare dimensions on the 253’s and just plan accordingly. I think the 253 is longer but similar width. The Hypex site has all the specifications
I think I get it now! The complex measurements etc happen on the design stage, if i have an already competently designed box the process of setting up dsp-filters is much more straight forward??
This actuallt opens up the possibility of looking at passive WWMT kits, keeping the mid/tweet crossover passive, feeding them the 100w tweeter output and the feeding the woofers 125w each and then i am left with designing a 2-way filter (or possibly a 2,5-way aswell i guess).
And the fa123 should work for this if i don't have high output expectations/desires.
Thank you for all the information and insights you have given me! I might ask you for a project file to study in the future when i get to that point @Juhazi thank you for the offer!!
This actuallt opens up the possibility of looking at passive WWMT kits, keeping the mid/tweet crossover passive, feeding them the 100w tweeter output and the feeding the woofers 125w each and then i am left with designing a 2-way filter (or possibly a 2,5-way aswell i guess).
And the fa123 should work for this if i don't have high output expectations/desires.
Thank you for all the information and insights you have given me! I might ask you for a project file to study in the future when i get to that point @Juhazi thank you for the offer!!
It is - and doing adjustments, including room corrections can also be easier.
Don't worry too much about the round over of (outer!) corners, some of us have spent a lot of time on that - and really, while a bit frustrating to admit, the biggest influence is on the looks.
The FA123, while the smallest amp in the range - it is not really low powered, unless you are into PA ;-)
Another recommendation, when you mention WAF, and also a preference for a compact speaker with impressive range:
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Purifi/SPK5-App-Note-1.22-1.pdf
The aforementioned friend actually built it, I routed the front and back plates. He used it active with fusion amps - and the later buyer then got hold of my FA123's to power them. I should be able to convey some more details to you if needed.
Before you ask... we were 4 who started out on the LX521's, with some projects sneaking in between....