I am considering two DACs one (ZEN Air DAC) uses the Burr-Brown Native DSD1793 DAC chip; the other one (Topping DX3 Pro+) uses the ESS ES9038Q2M chip. Which one is better?
"....what kind of question is this ?"
A straightforward one about the better DAC chip. What KIND of question is YOURS?
"The one that has an AKM chip."
Which one is that?
A straightforward one about the better DAC chip. What KIND of question is YOURS?
"The one that has an AKM chip."
Which one is that?
After having tried several ES9038 DACs and still having one I can only say that it is not exactly progress. The various filters, features, nice abbreviations and stellar numbers are fantastic and all but I use equipment to listen to stereo music and that is not its strongpoint regardless of implementation. A few gifted engineers here claim their design to be superior (also more expensive) but even budget class DACs often seem to outclass the majority of ES9038 products. Oddly it is used both in ultra cheap stuff and in expensive stuff and they're nothing special in either. Just avoid.
With regards to Ifi Zen Air, FWIW I have had the Ifi Zen Stream and a supposedly superior Ifi switcher but the first was the worst product I ever owned and the second died earlier than chinese no name switchers do. A lot of high brow claimed superiority but not my best customer experience. By far/at all. I will not buy/try an Ifi product again.
The here often laughed at SMSL and Topping devices may have less issues, live longer and are way cheaper when selected right. Beware of the exceptions that also exist and their reluctance to solve design/software imperfections! I think when you live in the now a product based on ES9039 is worth a shot and AK4493SEQ is simply worth every penny. In a well designed device with correct AVCC, XO's, right output stage etc. and all that blah blah.
With regards to Ifi Zen Air, FWIW I have had the Ifi Zen Stream and a supposedly superior Ifi switcher but the first was the worst product I ever owned and the second died earlier than chinese no name switchers do. A lot of high brow claimed superiority but not my best customer experience. By far/at all. I will not buy/try an Ifi product again.
The here often laughed at SMSL and Topping devices may have less issues, live longer and are way cheaper when selected right. Beware of the exceptions that also exist and their reluctance to solve design/software imperfections! I think when you live in the now a product based on ES9039 is worth a shot and AK4493SEQ is simply worth every penny. In a well designed device with correct AVCC, XO's, right output stage etc. and all that blah blah.
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"How does a DSD1793 do DSD256?"
I found this answer:
"These settings are possible with the PCM1793 with the use of an external filter for the 384 kHz sampling, and the part is able to operate in DSD mode up to 2.8224 MHz sampling which is DSD64."
I found this answer:
"These settings are possible with the PCM1793 with the use of an external filter for the 384 kHz sampling, and the part is able to operate in DSD mode up to 2.8224 MHz sampling which is DSD64."
DSD512*: https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/863.html
It also plays anything you throw at it. Now you could wait for Hyperstream VII and DSD2048 of course 🙂
* Maybe it is a good idea to first determine what you need/want. You may end up with a new source with good built in DAC and avoid all interfacing/cabling/filter choice/XMOS/software fun.
It also plays anything you throw at it. Now you could wait for Hyperstream VII and DSD2048 of course 🙂
* Maybe it is a good idea to first determine what you need/want. You may end up with a new source with good built in DAC and avoid all interfacing/cabling/filter choice/XMOS/software fun.
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When you say better, exactly what you mean by this. All of them are D/A converters taking a digital input and converting it as accurately as possible to an analogue stimulus. If you can accurately hear a change in amplitude of say 1 uV yes there is probably a difference. What you hang on after the D/A is more problematic, amps speakers, etc. If the source was analogue, say a pick-up head then there is a difference by how it is designed and constructed, say a Koetsu Black or Dynavector Carat Ruby, or an SME arm compared to a LINN Itok arm it is in the mechanics. You may generalise and ask which is best an Atmel or a Microchip processor it is all just semantics, unless you know exactly what you want to do with it - listen to music or make some very intricate measurements and stare at the numbers. If I gave you two numbers say 3 and 7, which is the better number.
Ah Nico Ras reacting, that is always good and friendly.
Well better as in sounding good. Not a native speaker in English so catch me on the words and primitive expression if you like. Please listen to any truly fantastic measuring ES9038 device of choice and tell if you like it or not. Simple test. No need to argue. Just listen. Write down your findings and test another ES9038 device. Repeat. Evaluate. Introduce a few other devices based on other DAC ICs in the mix. Just listen and write down your findings. What is your conclusion?
There is something unpleasant in the high tones. Noticed not only by me thankfully. As said it apparently does not reflect in the stellar numbers but many that believe in that numbers blindly also notice the unpleasant highs.
Well better as in sounding good. Not a native speaker in English so catch me on the words and primitive expression if you like. Please listen to any truly fantastic measuring ES9038 device of choice and tell if you like it or not. Simple test. No need to argue. Just listen. Write down your findings and test another ES9038 device. Repeat. Evaluate. Introduce a few other devices based on other DAC ICs in the mix. Just listen and write down your findings. What is your conclusion?
There is something unpleasant in the high tones. Noticed not only by me thankfully. As said it apparently does not reflect in the stellar numbers but many that believe in that numbers blindly also notice the unpleasant highs.
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What I meant to ask was if this was supposed to be subjective thing since (objectively speaking) the ESS part is newer and has better specifications on paper.
a good chipset is always good - but its implementation that makes differences in the finish result - i had m-dac + and now have burr-brown ifi micro isds - the latter is my favourite - it is better for spotify, noticeably - a bit more depth and excitement- but they are both equally valid as top players for this price bracket
+1 all is about voicing with things around the dac chip and in relation to your own set up as internet "raviews" are always made with non pro straigth monitor systems but with loudspeakers hifi devices.
When you see the review on Internet which half are maybe made by marketing agencies or with a form of incomes, so not necessarily honest (you have to know where you drink water) you have opposit advices often.
The SMSL 70 pro octo has 12 CS dac chip and is said to sound better than the AK-4499 E70 velvet. Some prefered better the SMLE E70 pro with the E9039 pro dac chip as a better equilibrium between clarity and weigth and tonals... How true in reality I really don't know.
In real it is like J-P describes : you have to try to know. And Ifi, it is possible than a ZEN II is not the same as A ZEN first gen and so on. Some liked better the ZEN I in a review I read than a Topping E-70 decribing better PRATT. @ThorstenL ( T Loesch) who was implicated I believe in the first iterration at least, is not what I call someone not taking care about sound; I will be very astonished his discrete hybrid output stage that voice for an important part the sound of a DAC to be bad.
Only one rule remains, the des-entanglement of your butt from the sofa to listen the device in the real world ! And it is very DIY to proceed accordingly !
So what have @dotneck335 purchased then and since ?
When you see the review on Internet which half are maybe made by marketing agencies or with a form of incomes, so not necessarily honest (you have to know where you drink water) you have opposit advices often.
The SMSL 70 pro octo has 12 CS dac chip and is said to sound better than the AK-4499 E70 velvet. Some prefered better the SMLE E70 pro with the E9039 pro dac chip as a better equilibrium between clarity and weigth and tonals... How true in reality I really don't know.
In real it is like J-P describes : you have to try to know. And Ifi, it is possible than a ZEN II is not the same as A ZEN first gen and so on. Some liked better the ZEN I in a review I read than a Topping E-70 decribing better PRATT. @ThorstenL ( T Loesch) who was implicated I believe in the first iterration at least, is not what I call someone not taking care about sound; I will be very astonished his discrete hybrid output stage that voice for an important part the sound of a DAC to be bad.
Only one rule remains, the des-entanglement of your butt from the sofa to listen the device in the real world ! And it is very DIY to proceed accordingly !
So what have @dotneck335 purchased then and since ?
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The usual way? RTFM? It even does DSD512.
Even DSD1024. But SNR looses around 4dB.
For DSD2048 you will need to interleave two.
Thor
The original used XU100 series XMOS, with heavily optimised code. This reduced jitter on all lines to basically very little. Unoptimised jitter is ~1nS on all outputs and there are problems with output timing. They have persisted in the official XMOS code since day one.
Later version changed to X200 XMOS that did not, AFAIK, have the same level of optimisation. HiFi News measured around 10 times or more jitter compared to the original.
Thor