Hi All,
I have a small stereo system consisting of an F5 amp, a Korg Newtube preamp, an old Rotel RP1000, and Frugal horn speakers with Fostex 4" full range speakers. I love my home build stereo. It is best when played with records that are recorded the old way with a band around a mic. Miles Davis Kind of Blue is one that sounds best. Live recordings sound great. Anything that is well recorded sounds good. Bad recordings are really exposed. The system's weakness is on the low end. These speakers cannot reproduce full orchestra recordings very well. The problem is not what sound comes out of the speakers, it is what is missing on the low end.
So, what speakers would you recommend that I build next? I need speakers that will reproduce big complex recordings that include a lot of base. I do not think adding a sub will work well with my current speakers. I have the tools and capability to build fairly complex cabinets if necessary. I will not add store bought speakers to my home built stereo. I would get sent to hell for a sin of that magnitude.
I do not have a huge house or an unlimited budget. WAF score will be a factor, but she loves my stereo so far...
I have a small stereo system consisting of an F5 amp, a Korg Newtube preamp, an old Rotel RP1000, and Frugal horn speakers with Fostex 4" full range speakers. I love my home build stereo. It is best when played with records that are recorded the old way with a band around a mic. Miles Davis Kind of Blue is one that sounds best. Live recordings sound great. Anything that is well recorded sounds good. Bad recordings are really exposed. The system's weakness is on the low end. These speakers cannot reproduce full orchestra recordings very well. The problem is not what sound comes out of the speakers, it is what is missing on the low end.
So, what speakers would you recommend that I build next? I need speakers that will reproduce big complex recordings that include a lot of base. I do not think adding a sub will work well with my current speakers. I have the tools and capability to build fairly complex cabinets if necessary. I will not add store bought speakers to my home built stereo. I would get sent to hell for a sin of that magnitude.
I do not have a huge house or an unlimited budget. WAF score will be a factor, but she loves my stereo so far...
You need a bass unit/s to complement the fostex.
Personally, I would look for smaller sized ones of the right specs.
Which one of the Fostex is yours?
What does the cabinet look like?
Personally, I would look for smaller sized ones of the right specs.
Which one of the Fostex is yours?
What does the cabinet look like?
Link to speaker specs.
https://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_components/pdf/FE126En.pdf
There are also Diyaudio.com forums for these drivers and the Frugal-Horns.
https://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/speaker_components/pdf/FE126En.pdf
There are also Diyaudio.com forums for these drivers and the Frugal-Horns.
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If you want compact, cost efective and good bass than consider 2,5-way floorstander with some modern 6,5in midbass drivers.
Plenty of good exanples around.
Plenty of good exanples around.
I am familiar with both. FE126En can be easily bettered, even even the FH3. Particualrily in the bass, but you will give up some sensitivity.
Interestingly enuff there is a thread ”Life after Frugel-Horn Mk3” https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/life-after-frugel-horn-mk3.416270/
dave
Interestingly enuff there is a thread ”Life after Frugel-Horn Mk3” https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/life-after-frugel-horn-mk3.416270/
dave
The Speaker Design Works Halcyon might be worth a look as they retain that full range driver you seem to like. There is a fairly long build thread on here worth a read.
https://www.speakerdesignworks.com/halcyon
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/curt-campbells-halcyon-build-thread.349255/
https://www.speakerdesignworks.com/halcyon
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/curt-campbells-halcyon-build-thread.349255/
I'm actually thinking of adding a new set of multi-way speakers that I can switch to when the recording demands more range. I like the frugalhorns too much to part with them.
Another option might also be Troels Gravesen SBA761 which uses first order crossovers. If you use the way back machine these were originally open source so the crossover component values are there if you look.
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SBA-761.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SBA-761.htm
Just go bigger with FHXL. You'll have more of everything, including actual deep bass. The link that Dave posted is this exact scenario. IIRC, the OP is building FHXL's with MA 11MS drivers.
jeff
I have Thought about the FHXL's. I may eventually go with them as the are, frugal.
As far as price range, I am not as limited there as I am cheap. It is hard to think of $700 plus going into a speaker that is a complete experiment. I guess all possible speakers involve a certain amount of experimentation though...
As far as price range, I am not as limited there as I am cheap. It is hard to think of $700 plus going into a speaker that is a complete experiment. I guess all possible speakers involve a certain amount of experimentation though...
Rather than an 'experiment', may I suggest you go for a widely built, well reviewed, proved design by someone like Curt Campbell/Jim Holz, Paul Carmody or CSS Audio. Nothing against other designers, of course and apologies if I've offended someone by omission.
You should be able to get a good idea of how their speakers sound and be able to work out the budget from their BoMs.
Geoff
You should be able to get a good idea of how their speakers sound and be able to work out the budget from their BoMs.
Geoff
"Rather than an 'experiment', may I suggest you go for a widely built, well reviewed, proved design by someone like Curt Campbell/Jim Holz, Paul Carmody or CSS Audio. Nothing against other designers, of course and apologies if I've offended someone by omission."
What he said. I built a pair of Paul Carmody's Sunflowers, and I have found them so good they have taken away my desire to build a better speaker. I still like to build speakers, but with the Sunflowers as my reference, it will be tough to find something I like better.
What he said. I built a pair of Paul Carmody's Sunflowers, and I have found them so good they have taken away my desire to build a better speaker. I still like to build speakers, but with the Sunflowers as my reference, it will be tough to find something I like better.
I've played in an orchestra. More fun, I've played in a symphonic band where the players were actually in tune. I've played an excellent piano (26-16000 hz including 4th harmonic) and I've briefly played a pipe organ. No speaker has satisfied me until my Peavey SP2(2004) which are knock offs of the Altec VOT design. 2 ways, 15" woofer + 1.4" CD on horn. +- 3 db 54-17.5 khz, and with them backed against a hard plaster wall, 26-54 hz is not missing.
How big is your room? voice out of 15" woofers (1800 hz) takes 11' to gel. I have mine about that far away, on stands to project the highs over the organ piano & furniture. Sound stays constant up to 33' away where my breakfast table is. There are diy copies. pispeakers 4 pi. https://pispeakers.com/Products.html econowave https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/econowave-style-15.400662/ One similar design but sealed and not as much bass, asathor. https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/367215-asathor-jbl-4367-clone.html?highlight=asathor
The transducers of the actual Peavey SP2 are available, 1508-KADT + RX22 CD. The horn is especially nice with 90x40 dispersion pointing down a little at the heads of the crowd. Or me sitting on my couch. I bought some used, shipping a used pair of horns does not cost like shipping an entire pair of speakers. I run them at 1/8 to 35 watts, with 1 watt average I guess. The SP2(2004) cabinet is wedge shaped to make the 1000-1800 hz disperse 90 deg -6 db, and there is a folded elastomer sheet I can see through the ports that would be impossible for an amateur to copy, IMHO. The design calls for chicken wire in front of the stage and a neon beer sign on the wall. Black & metal grill, big rocket Peavey logo. You don't have to make your copy look bar band like that.
I suggest balancing your prototype with a graphic equalizer and 2 channels of amp, to taste or proper measurements, before diving off into passive component crossover.
Best of luck. Hope you find a music room some day as nice as mine. 14'w 11' tall, 33' long, carpet, acoustic tile, 2 pianos 2 organs 2 organ speakers, book cases, record cases, foam furniture to break up the standing waves. A 1937 bungalow with the wall removed between living room & dining room. Unfashionable, but shaped like the Wein Pharmonica hall.
As sp2 have pawn shop value, and one set has been stolen already, I am trying to build some copies that are so ugly they have no cash value. The SP2 can be seen up on poles through the windows in my living room, and some of the apartment dwellers that walk/drive by have cash flow problems. I've bought a couple of Eminence Deltapro-15A woofers, a couple of Eminence 314T-8 CD, and a couple of eminence H14EA horns. 6 db roll off woofer at 1200 hz and 12 db roll off tweeter cut at 1200 is my first attempt at crossover. Carpentry is my problem, besides lack of experience all my power & hand tools went to the same fence that bought all the sound equipment, woodwind & string instruments, 2200 LP and 250 CD. If I did it again I would buy Eminence Kappapro-15A woofers instead of Deltapro. I was fantasizing about building sealed, which the deltapros will do, but really the vented SP2(2004) don't have a boomyness problem. Bass drum hits in ZZTop Afterburner are suitably tight. All that is about $500 each plus wood and hardware. The used SP2(2004) were $450 the pair plus running a car 400 miles to get them.
How big is your room? voice out of 15" woofers (1800 hz) takes 11' to gel. I have mine about that far away, on stands to project the highs over the organ piano & furniture. Sound stays constant up to 33' away where my breakfast table is. There are diy copies. pispeakers 4 pi. https://pispeakers.com/Products.html econowave https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/econowave-style-15.400662/ One similar design but sealed and not as much bass, asathor. https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/367215-asathor-jbl-4367-clone.html?highlight=asathor
The transducers of the actual Peavey SP2 are available, 1508-KADT + RX22 CD. The horn is especially nice with 90x40 dispersion pointing down a little at the heads of the crowd. Or me sitting on my couch. I bought some used, shipping a used pair of horns does not cost like shipping an entire pair of speakers. I run them at 1/8 to 35 watts, with 1 watt average I guess. The SP2(2004) cabinet is wedge shaped to make the 1000-1800 hz disperse 90 deg -6 db, and there is a folded elastomer sheet I can see through the ports that would be impossible for an amateur to copy, IMHO. The design calls for chicken wire in front of the stage and a neon beer sign on the wall. Black & metal grill, big rocket Peavey logo. You don't have to make your copy look bar band like that.
I suggest balancing your prototype with a graphic equalizer and 2 channels of amp, to taste or proper measurements, before diving off into passive component crossover.
Best of luck. Hope you find a music room some day as nice as mine. 14'w 11' tall, 33' long, carpet, acoustic tile, 2 pianos 2 organs 2 organ speakers, book cases, record cases, foam furniture to break up the standing waves. A 1937 bungalow with the wall removed between living room & dining room. Unfashionable, but shaped like the Wein Pharmonica hall.
As sp2 have pawn shop value, and one set has been stolen already, I am trying to build some copies that are so ugly they have no cash value. The SP2 can be seen up on poles through the windows in my living room, and some of the apartment dwellers that walk/drive by have cash flow problems. I've bought a couple of Eminence Deltapro-15A woofers, a couple of Eminence 314T-8 CD, and a couple of eminence H14EA horns. 6 db roll off woofer at 1200 hz and 12 db roll off tweeter cut at 1200 is my first attempt at crossover. Carpentry is my problem, besides lack of experience all my power & hand tools went to the same fence that bought all the sound equipment, woodwind & string instruments, 2200 LP and 250 CD. If I did it again I would buy Eminence Kappapro-15A woofers instead of Deltapro. I was fantasizing about building sealed, which the deltapros will do, but really the vented SP2(2004) don't have a boomyness problem. Bass drum hits in ZZTop Afterburner are suitably tight. All that is about $500 each plus wood and hardware. The used SP2(2004) were $450 the pair plus running a car 400 miles to get them.
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Thanks for your input. I played in a band that relied on a set of Peavy Sp1s. They were awesome and huge. I think the Sp2s are great as well, but my whole house is about 10 meters long. The room where my stereo is is about 5 meters long. So i don't have the space for Sp2s.
I don't like the speaker, it's pretty ugly and the box is extremely deep. That is, of course, just my preference and knowing the drivers, it promises to sound very good. And I like the minimalistic serial crossover.