Hi all,
First off please excuse any bad wording as english is not my native language.
That's a rethorical question really but I'm curious when I see some people selling their projects. Personnally I'm not confident enough in my electrical knowledge to think about selling anything I design or build especially regarding all the possible hazards; Sell enough things and there will inevitably be problems. My question is, do people selling projects get some sort of insurance against these hazards? I doubt any insurance company would offer coverage of an electrical product that isn't UL/CSA certified, and the process of getting an underwriters' certification can cost in the tens of grands I think, so out of reach of most enthusiasts here. Same goes for personnal liability insurance, I don't think these would cover damage resulting from an non-UL listed appliance. I also do not believe any form of liability waver in the form of a disclaimer can stand in a court of law. I recently learned that at least in Canada, even for used item you can still be held responsible if that old toaster you sold for 2$ burns down the buyer's house. Makes you think twice about selling anything with a wall plug...
Looking forward to hear from experienced sellers !
- Joris
First off please excuse any bad wording as english is not my native language.
That's a rethorical question really but I'm curious when I see some people selling their projects. Personnally I'm not confident enough in my electrical knowledge to think about selling anything I design or build especially regarding all the possible hazards; Sell enough things and there will inevitably be problems. My question is, do people selling projects get some sort of insurance against these hazards? I doubt any insurance company would offer coverage of an electrical product that isn't UL/CSA certified, and the process of getting an underwriters' certification can cost in the tens of grands I think, so out of reach of most enthusiasts here. Same goes for personnal liability insurance, I don't think these would cover damage resulting from an non-UL listed appliance. I also do not believe any form of liability waver in the form of a disclaimer can stand in a court of law. I recently learned that at least in Canada, even for used item you can still be held responsible if that old toaster you sold for 2$ burns down the buyer's house. Makes you think twice about selling anything with a wall plug...
Looking forward to hear from experienced sellers !
- Joris
I think swap meet items are sold as-is, with no warranty unless stated in the listing.
DiyAudio has no involvement or liability in any swap meet sales.
DiyAudio has no involvement or liability in any swap meet sales.
Often when I buy them the cord has already been cut. As for selling them, I don't have any sort of liability protection. I install appropriate fuses and construct equipment that is in many cases safer to use than a lot of what's been sold commercially. Nobody has had any issues and I don't forsee any coming up.
I sleep well at night because I know that what I've built is as safe as it can possibly be.
I think if you sell as a business you need to have the equipment safety checked.
In Europe that is CE certification.
Generally it would probably be ok without.
The problem comes if the equipment you sold kills someone or burns their house down.
Most businesses have insurance.
In Europe that is CE certification.
Generally it would probably be ok without.
The problem comes if the equipment you sold kills someone or burns their house down.
Most businesses have insurance.
It’s very much a case of “use at your own risk”, much like buying from any private sale or from a used goods venue.
As far as DIYing goes, I build using parts sourced from major distributors, no grey market parts, careful wiring layout, and I scrutinize the circuits for failure points. I do everything I can in preparation for that remote chance of a failure. There are soundly conceived DIY designs and others I wouldn’t touch. Same applies to commercial electronics.
I think there is room for better protection circuitry with symmetrical power supply shutdown and rate of change detection, but that’s another topic.
I don’t leave electrical components turned on or plugged in when I’m not home.
As far as DIYing goes, I build using parts sourced from major distributors, no grey market parts, careful wiring layout, and I scrutinize the circuits for failure points. I do everything I can in preparation for that remote chance of a failure. There are soundly conceived DIY designs and others I wouldn’t touch. Same applies to commercial electronics.
I think there is room for better protection circuitry with symmetrical power supply shutdown and rate of change detection, but that’s another topic.
I don’t leave electrical components turned on or plugged in when I’m not home.
I guess it depends on the project type and intended market. A closed project enclosure, low voltages, might pose an acceptable risk. A pcb intended to be populated by builders with basic experience may be ok. I build tube stuff with sometimes high voltage sitting right there under that ceramic top cap - I wouldn't dream to ever sell that stuff, because then I wouldn't sleep well at night.
My builds are powered with a key switch so that nobody can power them when I'm not there. Any pets are prohibited and I don't power the amps when small children are at home. Now let me tell you about the mercury vapor rectifiers 😎
My builds are powered with a key switch so that nobody can power them when I'm not there. Any pets are prohibited and I don't power the amps when small children are at home. Now let me tell you about the mercury vapor rectifiers 😎
It all depends on who you sell it to:
He sold a $40 printer. Then he was sued in Indiana for $30,000
You cannot protect yourself against crazy. Locally a guy was known as an ADA lawsuit guy. He'd have a guy in a wheelchair and roll into small shops. Of course the shops would fail the myriad of rules of ADA compliance, he'd sue and settle. A friend almost got caught as he owns an small apt complex in the area. The solution for my friend was they closed the "office" which was one of the apartments the manager lived in. Now there is no "office" in the complex, just a place where people go to see the manager. I'm a bit surprised the guy in Indiana was not given the legal "death sentence". IE, they are banned from filing lawsuits. I think the courts need to apply this more frequently than they do. Abuse it, lose it I say. The ADA guy I think was given the ban a few lawsuits after my friends.
I can imagine one can easily find non-compliance to electrical codes in a similar way for an electronics enthusiast-built product.