Thinking about using 1 or 2 of these on each side for a nearfield monitoring application, in between a TC9FD18 and NE19VTS. Crossover points likely 900 Hz and 2 kHz. Yes, would have them as 4-way monitors if this comes to fruition. Reason for these two drivers specifically is because they look pretty good and because I need the minimum size possible that is "lower" than a tweeter; I want to achieve, as close as possible, a point source on a flat baffle.
Any thoughts as to which of the two might be better-performing?
Any thoughts as to which of the two might be better-performing?
Bad idea…..multiple drivers won’t sum in the nearfield………a two way vertical MTM arrangement is a far better solution paired to a nearfield subwoofer.
Have you modeled the freq response and required crossover? If you can do something simple it might be worth trying.
I have a micromonitor and get really good performance from the Scanspeak 10F-4424G and the SB Acoustics SB21SDCN-C000-4 Dome Tweeter, Neo, 58mm. Mounted almost touching. I use a simple crossover, just a 10uF cap on the tweeter, and a .25mH coil on the mid. I get decent performance down to about 150-120Hz, with a nice smooth rolloff. Those two drivers seem to match up very smoothly with no need to pad the tweeter even. It should eventually pair well with a set of woofers in a WTMW or MTWW setup to fill out the low end.
I was blown away by how clear and clean it sounds as just that 2-way to start, both for nearfield and for sitting at a distance. Lacking in bass yes, but very revealing.
Edit: I missed that you mentioned an in-between driver in the title, to slot between the 3/4" tweeter and 3.5" mid. That might be too much...sounds complicated to integrate. And I think your "point source" would actually be bigger than just using the 3/4" and 3.5" and be done.
I have a micromonitor and get really good performance from the Scanspeak 10F-4424G and the SB Acoustics SB21SDCN-C000-4 Dome Tweeter, Neo, 58mm. Mounted almost touching. I use a simple crossover, just a 10uF cap on the tweeter, and a .25mH coil on the mid. I get decent performance down to about 150-120Hz, with a nice smooth rolloff. Those two drivers seem to match up very smoothly with no need to pad the tweeter even. It should eventually pair well with a set of woofers in a WTMW or MTWW setup to fill out the low end.
I was blown away by how clear and clean it sounds as just that 2-way to start, both for nearfield and for sitting at a distance. Lacking in bass yes, but very revealing.
Edit: I missed that you mentioned an in-between driver in the title, to slot between the 3/4" tweeter and 3.5" mid. That might be too much...sounds complicated to integrate. And I think your "point source" would actually be bigger than just using the 3/4" and 3.5" and be done.
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Certainly, the multiple drivers will not be able to coexist in space. What I meant by “point source” was that they should all have 1/4 wavelength c-c spacing at crossover.
I would have 8 channels of DSP anyway so lots of drivers wouldn’t be complicated to do.
I would have 8 channels of DSP anyway so lots of drivers wouldn’t be complicated to do.
If two tiny drivers won't sum in the nearfield, how can a tiny driver with a compact tweeter sum either?
Have you been able to find drivers that make possible a 4-way with crossover points of 900Hz and 2kHz, and ¼ wavelength center-center spacing at the crossover frequencies?
Crossing over at 2kHz while keeping ¼ wavelength center-center spacing requires a distance of no more than 43mm between tweeter diaphragm center and midrange (or mid-high, in the case of a 4-way) diaphragm center.
IME, a dearth of suitable midrange drivers and tweeters makes even a 3-way with ¼ wavelength center-center spacing at the crossover frequencies quite a challenge (choosing higher crossover frequencies increases the difficulty of the task).
Yes, although more advanced techniques like midrange entry ports (stolen shamelessly from the Synergy horn paradigm) and/or frequency-dependent acoustic shading (damping materials) are pretty much required in order to do it on a flat baffle, though. Note that this only applies to the crossover between the tweeter and the upper mid. Between the upper mid and lower mid, or between the mid and the woofer, this isn't an issue, due to the more forgiving nature of the relatively-smaller driver flanges, etc.
I wouldn't even need to be asking this question if the TC5FC00 were still available - it would be brain dead simple to mate up with almost any compact-flange tweeter and still achieve 1/4 wl c-c, while having a known-good midrange in play.
And, technically, the NE19VTS could likely play as low as 1.6 kHz at lower volumes, but it looks to be much more comfortable no lower than 1.8-2 kHz at moderate to higher volumes. The Scan-Speak D2004/602000 is also a compact tweeter well-known for its ability to play low.
I wouldn't even need to be asking this question if the TC5FC00 were still available - it would be brain dead simple to mate up with almost any compact-flange tweeter and still achieve 1/4 wl c-c, while having a known-good midrange in play.
And, technically, the NE19VTS could likely play as low as 1.6 kHz at lower volumes, but it looks to be much more comfortable no lower than 1.8-2 kHz at moderate to higher volumes. The Scan-Speak D2004/602000 is also a compact tweeter well-known for its ability to play low.
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The magic starts at crossover at or below the quarter wavelength of the driver centre-to-centre.
dave
What about a coaxial?
FWIW, I'm heading down this road myself - a compact pair of monitors that'll put out a useful amount of bass, and be point-source. My driver line-up is 2x Kartesian Sub120vHP and 1x SB Acoustics TW29RN. A friend has sucessfully used the beryllium version down to about 1kHz in a 3-way floorstander with 2x 10" woofers, so I figure the ring-radiator version will probably manage a similarly low crossover point since it only has to keep up with a pair of 4" woofers.
Chris
FWIW, I'm heading down this road myself - a compact pair of monitors that'll put out a useful amount of bass, and be point-source. My driver line-up is 2x Kartesian Sub120vHP and 1x SB Acoustics TW29RN. A friend has sucessfully used the beryllium version down to about 1kHz in a 3-way floorstander with 2x 10" woofers, so I figure the ring-radiator version will probably manage a similarly low crossover point since it only has to keep up with a pair of 4" woofers.
Chris
Not personally a big fan of the diffraction/modulation on the off-the-shelf stuff, and also can't be arsed to build my own proper coaxial driver.
Here's another example: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/build-thread-ardor-point-source-monitor.193689/
Here's another example: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/build-thread-ardor-point-source-monitor.193689/
Maybe I misunderstood you……you plan to build a 4 way speaker who’s overall line length is 14” for nearfield listening which classically means 1 meter or so?