I bought this four woofer dipole array, apparently locally manufactured here in Milwaukee, around 40 years ago. I've had the "system",
call an "Enigma", which includes a Hafler 200 sourced amp, and a "controller" that sets the crossover blend point and "impact" ..
whatever that is.
I had two of the drivers re-skirted around 15? years ago. Its time to do all four, and I'd like to use an OEM "style" of material if at all
possible -- this time.
Here's a photo of the "working end" of one 15" driver:
Magnet and Basket
An here's a close-up of the surround surface:
Foam Surround
I cannot find any OEM stamps or marks. Can anyone help identify the source of this woofer? I can provide dimensional data, if that helps.
I'm seeking a pointer into a "suspected OEM catalog" circa 1980 ...
--frankb
call an "Enigma", which includes a Hafler 200 sourced amp, and a "controller" that sets the crossover blend point and "impact" ..
whatever that is.
I had two of the drivers re-skirted around 15? years ago. Its time to do all four, and I'd like to use an OEM "style" of material if at all
possible -- this time.
Here's a photo of the "working end" of one 15" driver:
Magnet and Basket
An here's a close-up of the surround surface:
Foam Surround
I cannot find any OEM stamps or marks. Can anyone help identify the source of this woofer? I can provide dimensional data, if that helps.
I'm seeking a pointer into a "suspected OEM catalog" circa 1980 ...
--frankb
Well after a slog through several pages of google image search "matches", the closest basket tooling I can
come up with is from the 1970's Eminence 101916:
The "eight port" basket penetration with mounting holes radially centered on the port is very similar. All the Eminence
images I can find, however, have this "ripple" at the extremity of the port, where the tool buckled the metal during
forming. My woofers show no such "buckling" signature.
The magnet size, proportion to the basket, and the eased edge at the transition between basket and magnet mounting
surface are all very similar; as is the radial raised rib that stiffens the metal section between the basket ports.
This image Reverb Eminence 101916 details a similar plain paper cone, with a surround that appears to be rubber
or neoprene -- while mine is "doped" fabric, i think. And this is the "issue of interest" as I'm searching for surrounds
that give same/similar/original mechanical stiffness to the cone. I'd expect a dipole to have relatively high Qms ... right?
Anyone have an old Eminence catalog to share? Circa 1979? Or a Speaker Builder {or similar ... I'd not be surprised to
find this driver used for bass guitar and organ speakers} project?
come up with is from the 1970's Eminence 101916:
The "eight port" basket penetration with mounting holes radially centered on the port is very similar. All the Eminence
images I can find, however, have this "ripple" at the extremity of the port, where the tool buckled the metal during
forming. My woofers show no such "buckling" signature.
The magnet size, proportion to the basket, and the eased edge at the transition between basket and magnet mounting
surface are all very similar; as is the radial raised rib that stiffens the metal section between the basket ports.
This image Reverb Eminence 101916 details a similar plain paper cone, with a surround that appears to be rubber
or neoprene -- while mine is "doped" fabric, i think. And this is the "issue of interest" as I'm searching for surrounds
that give same/similar/original mechanical stiffness to the cone. I'd expect a dipole to have relatively high Qms ... right?
Anyone have an old Eminence catalog to share? Circa 1979? Or a Speaker Builder {or similar ... I'd not be surprised to
find this driver used for bass guitar and organ speakers} project?
Did you ever get this sorted out? I just picked up a pair of Community CPL-55 subwoofer cabinets, each housing two of these 101916 woofers. The ones I have are sporting foam surrounds and I believe the one in that Reverb ad are foam as well. While yours appear to be a treated cloth surround. Is the one in your pic, the original surround or one you had replaced 15 years ago?
I don't know if it is any interest to you, but here are the T/S parameters for the four 101916 woofers I have.
D 332.7 332.7 332.7 332.7 [mm]
Re 6.396 6.46 6.236 6.322 [Ohms]
Fs 24.8 22.95 27.35 27.35 [Hz]
Zm 94.94 114.7 47.2 45.31 [Ohms]
BL 17.94 18.7 17.36 18.65 [N/A]
Qms 5.862 6.425 2.882 2.689
Qes 0.4234 0.3834 0.4387 0.436
Qts 0.3949 0.3618 0.3808 0.3751
Vas 319.9 355.1 291.3 257.7 [liters]
L10k 3.07 3.042 2.564 2.574 [mH]
n0 1.099 1.067 1.296 1.154 [%]
dBSPL 92.51 92.38 93.23 92.72 [1W/1m]
Ms 136.8 143.9 123.4 139.5 [grams]
Cms 0.301 0.334 0.274 0.243 [mm/N]
*Measured with a Dayton DATS V3
*Sorry for the jumbled mess, I tried to space it out, but the site keeps reformatting it to this
D 332.7 332.7 332.7 332.7 [mm]
Re 6.396 6.46 6.236 6.322 [Ohms]
Fs 24.8 22.95 27.35 27.35 [Hz]
Zm 94.94 114.7 47.2 45.31 [Ohms]
BL 17.94 18.7 17.36 18.65 [N/A]
Qms 5.862 6.425 2.882 2.689
Qes 0.4234 0.3834 0.4387 0.436
Qts 0.3949 0.3618 0.3808 0.3751
Vas 319.9 355.1 291.3 257.7 [liters]
L10k 3.07 3.042 2.564 2.574 [mH]
n0 1.099 1.067 1.296 1.154 [%]
dBSPL 92.51 92.38 93.23 92.72 [1W/1m]
Ms 136.8 143.9 123.4 139.5 [grams]
Cms 0.301 0.334 0.274 0.243 [mm/N]
*Measured with a Dayton DATS V3
*Sorry for the jumbled mess, I tried to space it out, but the site keeps reformatting it to this
The surround in the picture is typical of all four woofers; and yes, it is definitely NOT a foam surround. From the image {previously posted by me}
it appears to be "doped cloth" treated for stiffness enhancement. My records do not allow me to determine which drivers I had
repaired, unfortunately -- but I will add detailed surrounds for each individual driver to my Flickr journal -- soon.
From what I've read, a Qms around 1 is "desirable"; Linkwitz, AE Speakers, et al. I'm suspecting that the small company that made
this Enigma variant modified { or OEM spec'd from Eminence, which was clearly 'a thing' that Eminence did } the drivers, including the silicone
plugged vent. A Qms around .4 is more typical of a driver configured for a large box.
Several sources have mentioned 'back chuffing' of the voicecoil vent to be 'an issue' on dipole subwoofer design.
I'm considering dropping $3K on a quad of driver replacements with AE speakers, after reading this review from Joseph Crowe ...
while they are still available. I have a second subwoofer system that uses four drivers in two large, ducted boxes -- and
could re-configure this set { foam? } to be suitable replacements.
It was, probably -- depending upon which "factory" you mean. Each voice coil was covered by a brown spherical plastic
cover, with a vent hole that hid that silicone detail. All four have similar tooling marks from the casting of the plug.
I pulled the cover off before photo. I'll add one with the cover, and a photo of the dedicated controller and Hafler 200 based
amp. I have a second "stock" Hafler 200 to use as a comparison, in an effort to determine whether there are any amp
mods that are "part of the system" as shipped.
Ok, that definitely rules them out from being the 101916 woofers. As far as I know, doped cloth surrounds shouldn't need replacing unless they're damaged. What makes you think they need to be replaced?
Are you sure you're not talking about Qts? I've read a high Qms is desirable. And I've never seen any woofer with a Qms of 1 or lower.
Are you sure you're not talking about Qts? I've read a high Qms is desirable. And I've never seen any woofer with a Qms of 1 or lower.