Hey Folks,
I've been hooked on the idea of making a WAW for a while. I've also been heavily inspired by xrk & bushmeisters bookshelf synergy thread and love the look of the results they have gotten from the SB 2.5" fullrange.
As it stands I don't believe I have the technical knowledge or physical skills to create a MEH, so I'd like to buy a horn, print adapters and create a WAW setup to begin with. One day I could move to making a MEH.
I've been considering a number of different fullrange 2"-4" drivers and would like to test multiple over time. I'd start with the SB 2.5" and adapter xrk designed in the bookshelf thread.
Please note, my primary goal from horn/waveguide loading the full range is controlled dispersion. Not increasing the SPL of the driver.
Why a WAW/ Fullranger, instead of a compression driver? I want to cross as low as possible in true WAW/Fullrange philosphy of avoiding crossovers in the main audio spectrum. But I also want more bass than can be found from full rangers (WAW), with better dispersion thus trying to horn load these little guys. Compression drivers that reach 300-400hz and have a good top end are not cheap in the slightest!
I am considering the two following horns after a fair amount of research and would love some external thoughts:
Eighteen Sound XT1464 horn https://www.eighteensound.it/en/products/horn/1-4/0/XT1464
for 60x 50 degree CD with 500hz loading.
RCF HF950 https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/media/catalog/product/datasheet/rcf/HF950.pdf
for 90x 50degree CD with 400hz loading.
Is there a reason you wouldn't choose the HF950 besides size?
Are there any other affordable, CD, low crossed, 1.4" commercially available horns you can think of?
Am I just nuts and should stay with a more traditional WAW design?
The reason I am starting a different thread is that this build isn't constrained by size like xrk & bushmeisters discussion is, it isn't immediately a MEH and I don't want to muddy their waters.
As regards to the overall WAW design, I’d see the primary goals as:
<500hz crossover.
1/4 wavelength distance CtC spacing
Good directivity to 10k+ hz
In room Bass extension to 35hz.
Nice to have goals:
<300hz crossover
85+ db total speaker sensitivity
Passive crossover option - unlikely.
Time aligned
Low THD for both drivers
Flexible in room positioning requirements
Would love to hear your thoughts,
I've been hooked on the idea of making a WAW for a while. I've also been heavily inspired by xrk & bushmeisters bookshelf synergy thread and love the look of the results they have gotten from the SB 2.5" fullrange.
As it stands I don't believe I have the technical knowledge or physical skills to create a MEH, so I'd like to buy a horn, print adapters and create a WAW setup to begin with. One day I could move to making a MEH.
I've been considering a number of different fullrange 2"-4" drivers and would like to test multiple over time. I'd start with the SB 2.5" and adapter xrk designed in the bookshelf thread.
Please note, my primary goal from horn/waveguide loading the full range is controlled dispersion. Not increasing the SPL of the driver.
Why a WAW/ Fullranger, instead of a compression driver? I want to cross as low as possible in true WAW/Fullrange philosphy of avoiding crossovers in the main audio spectrum. But I also want more bass than can be found from full rangers (WAW), with better dispersion thus trying to horn load these little guys. Compression drivers that reach 300-400hz and have a good top end are not cheap in the slightest!
I am considering the two following horns after a fair amount of research and would love some external thoughts:
Eighteen Sound XT1464 horn https://www.eighteensound.it/en/products/horn/1-4/0/XT1464
for 60x 50 degree CD with 500hz loading.
RCF HF950 https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/media/catalog/product/datasheet/rcf/HF950.pdf
for 90x 50degree CD with 400hz loading.
Is there a reason you wouldn't choose the HF950 besides size?
Are there any other affordable, CD, low crossed, 1.4" commercially available horns you can think of?
Am I just nuts and should stay with a more traditional WAW design?
The reason I am starting a different thread is that this build isn't constrained by size like xrk & bushmeisters discussion is, it isn't immediately a MEH and I don't want to muddy their waters.
As regards to the overall WAW design, I’d see the primary goals as:
<500hz crossover.
1/4 wavelength distance CtC spacing
Good directivity to 10k+ hz
In room Bass extension to 35hz.
Nice to have goals:
<300hz crossover
85+ db total speaker sensitivity
Passive crossover option - unlikely.
Time aligned
Low THD for both drivers
Flexible in room positioning requirements
Would love to hear your thoughts,
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Some calculation on hand
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-than-box-speakers.407062/page-7#post-7554818
P.s. and those are wave guides.
A horn destroys the form of the wave
The waveguide does less harm. Also a flat baffle is a waveguide.
I suggest to try with broken speakers, from 10" and up, diy is your friend...oh yes, nowadays there are 3d printer
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-than-box-speakers.407062/page-7#post-7554818
P.s. and those are wave guides.
A horn destroys the form of the wave
The waveguide does less harm. Also a flat baffle is a waveguide.
I suggest to try with broken speakers, from 10" and up, diy is your friend...oh yes, nowadays there are 3d printer
Last edited:
To cross as low as one wuld typicallyh use in a WAW it will need to be BIG.
And keep in mind that with horns typically god fr 3-4 octaves, it will be a direct radiator at the top.
Like the Oris horns. Can’t off th etop recal the Ozzie’s name that does simialr horns.
dave
And keep in mind that with horns typically god fr 3-4 octaves, it will be a direct radiator at the top.
Like the Oris horns. Can’t off th etop recal the Ozzie’s name that does simialr horns.
dave
My goal isn’t to increase SPL in any meaningful amount. The primary goal is to control dispersion of the full range driver.
I should have added this to the original post and have now edited it in.
My thought was that using an adapter to take a 2.5” driver down to a 1.4” throat, you’d be “restarting” the dispersion of the full range driver into a much smaller output. Similar to a lens or slot loading? I believe this is how the taps for MEH woofers work?
I might have my concepts completely wrong haha 😂🥲.
I should have added this to the original post and have now edited it in.
My thought was that using an adapter to take a 2.5” driver down to a 1.4” throat, you’d be “restarting” the dispersion of the full range driver into a much smaller output. Similar to a lens or slot loading? I believe this is how the taps for MEH woofers work?
I might have my concepts completely wrong haha 😂🥲.
It's good to know you have a purpose for using the waveguide. That's necessary for the job of defining it.
I believe your idea of reducing the throat can be defined as the same as designing a phase plug. Reducing it may help if you can identify a problem to begin with, otherwise you'll just be making it longer. Consider too, that above ka=1 things won't be so ideal.
I wouldn't say this is how the taps in a MEH work. The first issue there is having a port small enough not to disturb the waveguide shape.
I believe your idea of reducing the throat can be defined as the same as designing a phase plug. Reducing it may help if you can identify a problem to begin with, otherwise you'll just be making it longer. Consider too, that above ka=1 things won't be so ideal.
I wouldn't say this is how the taps in a MEH work. The first issue there is having a port small enough not to disturb the waveguide shape.
Lens/slot = compression loading a 'FR' driver is generally not a good plan, so proper WG to control off axis dispersion and in general better overall to just use a large baffle if there's enough room for them.
I've had success (to my ears/measurements) with a 2" full range in a large off-the-shelf horn with a 2" throat, crossed over around 500hz. I used lots of dsp eq to get a reasonable freq resp and the phase response looked crazy, but the sound is very satisfying and imaging is great too with a locked in central image with depth.
As with a lot of DIY audio, you have to choose whether you want to follow the rules to the letter or go off piste a bit and try things out. Either are good imo.
As with a lot of DIY audio, you have to choose whether you want to follow the rules to the letter or go off piste a bit and try things out. Either are good imo.
Sounds like a lot of off piste (AKA fun) to me😀
Do you have some data on the parts and measurements?
P-Audio PH-642 2" Horn Flare and Aurasound NSW2-326-8A-120 2"
Quite a mission installing that horn in a box!
I crossed over at about 400-500hz to a pair of SB acoustics cheap mid-bass drivers, that I might upgrade as I'm using them waaay too low...they're complaining.
I used a https://zoudio.com/product/aio438/ to eq-amp.
The measurements (from memory) were understandably wild, but I used a wide notch filter at around 1khz about -10db. Simple 2nd order crossover - all dsp. Very happy. Rock centre imaging and wide soundstage. Good fun on a budget.
Quite a mission installing that horn in a box!
I crossed over at about 400-500hz to a pair of SB acoustics cheap mid-bass drivers, that I might upgrade as I'm using them waaay too low...they're complaining.
I used a https://zoudio.com/product/aio438/ to eq-amp.
The measurements (from memory) were understandably wild, but I used a wide notch filter at around 1khz about -10db. Simple 2nd order crossover - all dsp. Very happy. Rock centre imaging and wide soundstage. Good fun on a budget.
I had the same idea a while back. I just couldn't accommodate the horn sizes necessary. If you're concern is dispersion, I think the aforementioned horns will come up a bit short. The product page for the XTSounds horns says it maintains pattern control down to 800hz horizontal and 1.5khz vertical. The RCF datasheet doesn't mention pattern control but given the frequency response graphs and polars, I don't think it's going to maintain directivity down to 500hz. Joseph Crowe has some plans for custom horns that go down to 200-300hz but they are quite large. Far too much for my space.
The P-Audio Horn above is listed as 400hz crossover. £36 with a £30 driver. Hard to beat sound at that price IMO.