Hi all,
I own a Mercedes-Benz W109 S-Class for quite a while now.
This is one of the later models of the series (1972), but the design was basically before 1965 (and even from the 50’s as it is heavily based on the predecessor). Back in those days, hi-quality audio in the car was not really a thing. Remember, at that time there was an ongoing debate if listening to the radio was dangerous as it could divert the driver’s attention…
I was never a big fan of audiophile audio setups in cars (as opposed to home/pro audio setups). All I am looking for is a decent, basic setup with 2 speakers on the front and 2 in the back so I can listen to some music and audiobooks while driving.
From the factory, mine was equiped with a single mono speaker on the center of the dashboard and another mono speaker at the center of the rear shelf (the latter was already an option). Luckily, it was already prepared for stereo speakers in the rear, the body pannel of the rear shelf was already pre-punched at the factory. So for the rear, no problem, I managed to install a pair of standard 2-way car speakers without any problem.
The real issue is the front/dashboard. There was another factory option for stereo speaker in the front, but I really don’t like how they did it. These are small speakers mounted in the footroom, not even pointing in the same direction (on the driver’s side, it is pointing towards the transmission tunnel and your legs, and on the passenger side it is pointing towards the seat. These speakers can still be ordered but cost a mint and I really don’t like this setup.
There is one aftermarket solution which consists of installing a special stereo-speaker (1 cone, 2 tweeters) in the original place in the center of the dashboard, but I like this even less.
Of course, drilling 60mm holes in the wodden dahboard is out of the question, but I wouldn’t mind fixing speakers on top ot the dashboard for instance, provided that it looks decent and that it could be removed if needed.
If, by any chance, where are other w108/w109 drivers here, or anyone who has some ideas, please share!
Here are a few a pictures of similar cars (not mine, but the dashboard is the same), just for reference…
Cheers!
Denis
I own a Mercedes-Benz W109 S-Class for quite a while now.
This is one of the later models of the series (1972), but the design was basically before 1965 (and even from the 50’s as it is heavily based on the predecessor). Back in those days, hi-quality audio in the car was not really a thing. Remember, at that time there was an ongoing debate if listening to the radio was dangerous as it could divert the driver’s attention…
I was never a big fan of audiophile audio setups in cars (as opposed to home/pro audio setups). All I am looking for is a decent, basic setup with 2 speakers on the front and 2 in the back so I can listen to some music and audiobooks while driving.
From the factory, mine was equiped with a single mono speaker on the center of the dashboard and another mono speaker at the center of the rear shelf (the latter was already an option). Luckily, it was already prepared for stereo speakers in the rear, the body pannel of the rear shelf was already pre-punched at the factory. So for the rear, no problem, I managed to install a pair of standard 2-way car speakers without any problem.
The real issue is the front/dashboard. There was another factory option for stereo speaker in the front, but I really don’t like how they did it. These are small speakers mounted in the footroom, not even pointing in the same direction (on the driver’s side, it is pointing towards the transmission tunnel and your legs, and on the passenger side it is pointing towards the seat. These speakers can still be ordered but cost a mint and I really don’t like this setup.
There is one aftermarket solution which consists of installing a special stereo-speaker (1 cone, 2 tweeters) in the original place in the center of the dashboard, but I like this even less.
Of course, drilling 60mm holes in the wodden dahboard is out of the question, but I wouldn’t mind fixing speakers on top ot the dashboard for instance, provided that it looks decent and that it could be removed if needed.
If, by any chance, where are other w108/w109 drivers here, or anyone who has some ideas, please share!
Here are a few a pictures of similar cars (not mine, but the dashboard is the same), just for reference…
Cheers!
Denis
I think you have a pretty good idea of what you'll have to do. A lot of people like the kick-panel speaker mounting. If you find a good installer/shop, they could build you some a-pillar mounts for tweeters if nothing is available. Richard Clark had horns under the dash on each side ion his Grand National. I love the G-body cars but they are also very difficult to get speakers where you want them.
The bottom image is a huge surprise. I'd never thought that someone would restore a car like that and put hydraulics on it.
The bottom image is a huge surprise. I'd never thought that someone would restore a car like that and put hydraulics on it.
There may be room under the dash for some (hidden small boxes) down-firing speakers, that and some smaller speakers in the original dash location. It’s hard to find small amps anymore, but you’d only need 50 watts to overcome the road noise.
I have done some stealth installations on older cars. They always sound better with as much of the sound coming from up front if possible.
I have done some stealth installations on older cars. They always sound better with as much of the sound coming from up front if possible.
amplification is not an issue, the car radio has 4x40W, that's plenty! I also have a bunch of old small car amps laying around, so I could use them if needed. (also I don't mind hearing the nice V8 under the hood...)
The reason I'm not a big fan of speaker in the middle of the dashboard is that is really messes up the stereo panorama. the problem with down-firing speakers is that it works quite well for bass/mid-range, but for mid-hi range it is really not good (at least according to my tests and former experience). Small speakers under the dash might indeed be the best option available... I don't have much space because the knees are getting quite close (especially on the driver's side), but that may be a viable option. Do you have some specific references in mind?
Cheers
Denis
The reason I'm not a big fan of speaker in the middle of the dashboard is that is really messes up the stereo panorama. the problem with down-firing speakers is that it works quite well for bass/mid-range, but for mid-hi range it is really not good (at least according to my tests and former experience). Small speakers under the dash might indeed be the best option available... I don't have much space because the knees are getting quite close (especially on the driver's side), but that may be a viable option. Do you have some specific references in mind?
Cheers
Denis
The speakers in the dash are higher frequency, 3-1/2” for example, and can be aimed via mounting within the space to reflect off the windshield. That allows for more of an “image” or “soundstage”, or whatever you prefer to call it.
The speakers under the dash would be in very small boxes, and whatever would fit.
And the boxes would likely not be simple shapes either. I have used 8” before, using a crossover that was provided with a set. Definitely lower frequency.
Unless the car stereo has a step-up power supply, like a typical aftermarket amp, then it’s going to be limited to maybe 12watts.
That’s just physics.
Or you could just use a small Bluetooth speaker on the seat next to you…
The speakers under the dash would be in very small boxes, and whatever would fit.
And the boxes would likely not be simple shapes either. I have used 8” before, using a crossover that was provided with a set. Definitely lower frequency.
Unless the car stereo has a step-up power supply, like a typical aftermarket amp, then it’s going to be limited to maybe 12watts.
That’s just physics.
Or you could just use a small Bluetooth speaker on the seat next to you…
yeah the car stereo I have installed is nothing fancy, it was 4x40W speaker outputs, that is plausible (the max theoretical DC power you can get out of ideal 4 Ohm speakers on a 12 (14V) system is about 49W per ch. The advertised 4x40W may be a bit optimistic, but evec with 20W per ch, that's more than enough for plenty of sound. Not to mention that I already have a sub in the trunk (which used the grille at the center of the rear shelf). So basically the speaker I need could be focused on mid/hi-range.
I still want a decent built-in installation, just a BT on the seat won't make the trick. I'm also usually not driving alone, so it should definitely be a fixed install
I still want a decent built-in installation, just a BT on the seat won't make the trick. I'm also usually not driving alone, so it should definitely be a fixed install
Opinions will vary, of course but 20w/channel (optimistic into 4 ohms on 12 or even 14v) isn't enough for most people who actively listen (not just background music) and have audio with great dynamic range (audiophile tracks) unless their car is dead silent (road and vehicle noise)... or possibly using ultra-high efficiency speakers. Try it but leave options to add more power.