I have an almost new SONY TA-F444ESII with ATTENUATOR issues.
In the times of old we would just rotate a few times to wipe it clean, however this sorta helps.
Even after the wiping one channel or both are either static or not there, a few more wiggles and things settle down.
Most times it will play all day with no issues.
Does anyone have a fix for this? I bought this guy in 1985 and have enjoyed it a lot.
Looking online has produced no parts or links this site was great to read for some other issues and how to check/correct.
I live in Southern Georgia and know of NO shop to contact. All help is appreciated
(And almost new is relative)
Thank You
wmildman
In the times of old we would just rotate a few times to wipe it clean, however this sorta helps.
Even after the wiping one channel or both are either static or not there, a few more wiggles and things settle down.
Most times it will play all day with no issues.
Does anyone have a fix for this? I bought this guy in 1985 and have enjoyed it a lot.
Looking online has produced no parts or links this site was great to read for some other issues and how to check/correct.
I live in Southern Georgia and know of NO shop to contact. All help is appreciated
(And almost new is relative)
Thank You
wmildman
I wouldn't immediately put it down to the attenuator. There are also several sets of 'sliding' switches and a protection relay in that amp, which can all be difficult to clean properly, and can cause those symptoms.
I've had similar problems with other Sony ES units from that era, and have been down most of those 'rabbit holes'...
I've had similar problems with other Sony ES units from that era, and have been down most of those 'rabbit holes'...
Could you offer a bit of guidance? Best cleaner you have found and maybe steps you follow
I really like the unit, I have searched for assistance and parts
And yes it is old but good
I really like the unit, I have searched for assistance and parts
And yes it is old but good
I think Goldie was just pointing out that you describe an intermittent contact problem, and that any switch/relay/pot that has a R and a L side could be at fault.
For the Sony, that includes the speaker selector switch, the Tone-defeat switch, the tone and balance controls, as well as the volume control. I think that most people's experience is that controls that don't get activated/used much are particularly susceptible to developing intermittent contacts after many years. You can check for susceptibility by gently operating each control while music is playing, to see if there is any sensitivity to that motion. You seem to have that already for the volume control, but it might not be the only one. All the controls mentioned above can be tested this way, but the speaker relay can't.
Easiest treatment is just to exercise each control vigorously. Something like 20 times through the full range. If this does not have the desired effect, the thing I do next is introduce a couple of short bursts of a pure solvent "contact" cleaner such as CRC QD (often can be found at Walmart, in the electrical or auto sections), followed by vigorous exercising of the control again. This can be effective if you find an opening in the body of the control into which to squirt the QD. Otherwise, the solvent will have a difficult time getting to where it can do some good. Spraying external shafts or switch levers will not do anything useful.
There are other products, such as Deoxit red as a spray or drops, that include a more aggressive cleaning agent and some lubricant, but these are best used sparingly and only after a pure solvent product fails to produce the desired result. Some will caution against using such products, however, based on a belief or experience that they can do more harm than good on certain components.
For the Sony, that includes the speaker selector switch, the Tone-defeat switch, the tone and balance controls, as well as the volume control. I think that most people's experience is that controls that don't get activated/used much are particularly susceptible to developing intermittent contacts after many years. You can check for susceptibility by gently operating each control while music is playing, to see if there is any sensitivity to that motion. You seem to have that already for the volume control, but it might not be the only one. All the controls mentioned above can be tested this way, but the speaker relay can't.
Easiest treatment is just to exercise each control vigorously. Something like 20 times through the full range. If this does not have the desired effect, the thing I do next is introduce a couple of short bursts of a pure solvent "contact" cleaner such as CRC QD (often can be found at Walmart, in the electrical or auto sections), followed by vigorous exercising of the control again. This can be effective if you find an opening in the body of the control into which to squirt the QD. Otherwise, the solvent will have a difficult time getting to where it can do some good. Spraying external shafts or switch levers will not do anything useful.
There are other products, such as Deoxit red as a spray or drops, that include a more aggressive cleaning agent and some lubricant, but these are best used sparingly and only after a pure solvent product fails to produce the desired result. Some will caution against using such products, however, based on a belief or experience that they can do more harm than good on certain components.
Thank You
Also in the for what it's worth category "Aggravated" refers to the control and scratchy noise not me.
These units are good to me and I want to make them last
Thanks again
Also in the for what it's worth category "Aggravated" refers to the control and scratchy noise not me.
These units are good to me and I want to make them last
Thanks again
Northpaw has already highlighted exactly what I was getting at - I initially experienced similar issues with a Sony TA-F500ES I've had from new, and 'assumed' them to be relay related. One new relay, problem solved, or so I thought... then, 2-3 months, the symptoms returned...
The next 'attempt' focused on the spk selection switch, a small (unobtainable) rotary slide switch, remote mounted at the rear of the amp. Complete removal, disassembly, and cleaning, again afforded some relief from the problem. Suffice to say, I've now slowly worked my way through almost all of the pcb mounted slide switches over the past 3 years or so.
As Northpaw mentioned, "this can be effective if you find an opening in the body of the control into which to squirt the QD", unfortunately that's exactly the issue I faced - several of the slide switches in the TA-F500ES are pcb mounted, with NO good access to the actual contacts.
After 35+ years use, the only really effective method I've found to properly clean them has been physically removing the switches from the relevant pcb, and (carefully) dismantling them for cleaning - just as an example, the attached photo shows the sliding contact parts of the remote spk select slide switch I removed, before cleaning. I also have other Sony ES models from that era, several of which use similar types of sliding switches, including the TA-F444ES II (although mine, fortunately, has not suffered the same issue - yet).
The next 'attempt' focused on the spk selection switch, a small (unobtainable) rotary slide switch, remote mounted at the rear of the amp. Complete removal, disassembly, and cleaning, again afforded some relief from the problem. Suffice to say, I've now slowly worked my way through almost all of the pcb mounted slide switches over the past 3 years or so.
As Northpaw mentioned, "this can be effective if you find an opening in the body of the control into which to squirt the QD", unfortunately that's exactly the issue I faced - several of the slide switches in the TA-F500ES are pcb mounted, with NO good access to the actual contacts.
After 35+ years use, the only really effective method I've found to properly clean them has been physically removing the switches from the relevant pcb, and (carefully) dismantling them for cleaning - just as an example, the attached photo shows the sliding contact parts of the remote spk select slide switch I removed, before cleaning. I also have other Sony ES models from that era, several of which use similar types of sliding switches, including the TA-F444ES II (although mine, fortunately, has not suffered the same issue - yet).
The reason I referred to the attenuator is when I rotate it back and forth I get some relief and usually it clears up and works properly.
No other activation performed. That is why I thought it to be the problem. My plan is to open it up and try cleaning the attenuator.
I was looking for information about doing that, steps and products. Anyone that has performed this will know the right and wrong way.
I am learning from their experiences
Thank You
No other activation performed. That is why I thought it to be the problem. My plan is to open it up and try cleaning the attenuator.
I was looking for information about doing that, steps and products. Anyone that has performed this will know the right and wrong way.
I am learning from their experiences
Thank You
Although the attenuator itself could certainly be involved, those are actually the classic symptoms of a dirty or failing protection relay, or indeed other dirty contact(s) in the signal path.
Personally, having completely rebuilt my own TA-F444ES II, I doubt the volume attenuator is the issue but that's just my 2p... YMMV
Personally, having completely rebuilt my own TA-F444ES II, I doubt the volume attenuator is the issue but that's just my 2p... YMMV
I am not disputing any info given, actually Very Thankful
Every problem resolved had a starting point and there is always other parts/pieces in the circuit
Once open and proper cleaning agents and tools in hand I can move forward through the circuitry.
For well over 45 years I was a contract Instrumentation Technician, (mostly power generation plants) so that required a good bit of research when encountering a new problem or system. Tech manuals were my guide along with fellow Technicians.
Similar to taking a trip you have to start somewhere and my start was knowing the correct cleaner and hearing from experience, which is this site.
I spent several hours reading the posts and decided to subscribe. I have a service manual coming and will get some CDC contact cleaner.
I do have the opinion my parts may be dirty not faulty?? I will check while in there.
Any other tips feel free to pass along.
Are any parts available for my 38 year old?
Thank You
Every problem resolved had a starting point and there is always other parts/pieces in the circuit
Once open and proper cleaning agents and tools in hand I can move forward through the circuitry.
For well over 45 years I was a contract Instrumentation Technician, (mostly power generation plants) so that required a good bit of research when encountering a new problem or system. Tech manuals were my guide along with fellow Technicians.
Similar to taking a trip you have to start somewhere and my start was knowing the correct cleaner and hearing from experience, which is this site.
I spent several hours reading the posts and decided to subscribe. I have a service manual coming and will get some CDC contact cleaner.
I do have the opinion my parts may be dirty not faulty?? I will check while in there.
Any other tips feel free to pass along.
Are any parts available for my 38 year old?
Thank You
I have seen other contact cleaners trash the tracks of pots, but not Deoxit. It's been my go-to contact cleaner since the 90s and I've never had an issue with it. The key is not to get it where it shouldn't be. The best way to do this is to desolder the pot, disassemble and clean just the wiper and track. Don't get it into the bearing / bush! And don't get it near delicate plastic parts that it could dissolve (not that I've ever seen D5 dissolve anything). I'd say there is a good chance that after a careful cleaning, your noise issues will be gone. I cleaned up the amazing Alps attenuator in the TAE-88B this way and it worked like new.
I have serviced many older amps like this and found the speaker protection relay(s) to be a very common failure item, as Goldie99 already mentioned.
Behavior is just as you describe, so it does act like it's the volume control, but it's not.
When the relay contacts are worn/dirty, the amount of signal that gets through depends on how big the signal is, so turning up the volume makes it work better, until the next power cycle.
The simple test is to short out the relay contacts and see if that fixes the issue.
If so, replace or clean it.
Good Luck.
Behavior is just as you describe, so it does act like it's the volume control, but it's not.
When the relay contacts are worn/dirty, the amount of signal that gets through depends on how big the signal is, so turning up the volume makes it work better, until the next power cycle.
The simple test is to short out the relay contacts and see if that fixes the issue.
If so, replace or clean it.
Good Luck.
I thank each of you for the input and I have ordered Deoxit and my service manual should be here soon
(nothing like a road map when you are traveling)
With your experience, I have learned a lot and have a good feeling about my issue.
It will be a bit before i have it together but will post the results.
Thank you all
(nothing like a road map when you are traveling)
With your experience, I have learned a lot and have a good feeling about my issue.
It will be a bit before i have it together but will post the results.
Thank you all
Techtool makes a good point. You will see plenty of replacement relays for amps from this era on Ebay. They typically have many sales in the listing history, telling you just how often relay replacement is needed. If you can't find the replacement, you can sometimes clean up the relay yourself, but it's simpler to fit a replacement.
A few points about the speaker protection relay. First, it can be tested to some degree by simply tapping it with a chopstick, etc., while music is playing to see if there is any sensitivity there. My TA-F444ESII is buried in a stack at the moment and I did not take internal photos and I don't recall how accessible the Speaker SW board is; the service manual shows it as an inverted board with the component side facing down, so the relay may be accessible with the bottom plate off.
Second, it is always worthwhile reflowing the solders on the relay before replacing because sometimes it is just a cold joint. I don't know if this is caused by the vibrations that come with relay activation over time, but that is one of my pet theories.
Lastly, not that thermionic was suggesting buying a replacement relay from ebay, it is always highly preferable to get one from a trusted electronics supplier. Once you can see the model markings on the original relay, it is usually possible to find a datasheet online for the specs (the service manual is not much help here, unfortunately) and use that as a guide to finding a modern replacement.
Second, it is always worthwhile reflowing the solders on the relay before replacing because sometimes it is just a cold joint. I don't know if this is caused by the vibrations that come with relay activation over time, but that is one of my pet theories.
Lastly, not that thermionic was suggesting buying a replacement relay from ebay, it is always highly preferable to get one from a trusted electronics supplier. Once you can see the model markings on the original relay, it is usually possible to find a datasheet online for the specs (the service manual is not much help here, unfortunately) and use that as a guide to finding a modern replacement.
TA-F444ESII Hi I'm after any info regarding this model as I have recently purchased this amp not working. The problem is it is going into protection after around a minute 30 seconds. It does have an LED lit on the right channel but not lit on the left. Now should both LEDS be lit up or should they both be out? I am aware of resistors going out of spec and have ordered them. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
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Both of my LEDs (next to the bias TPs) are lit.
As for the fusible resistors being out of spec, Goldie has suggested in an older thread that they can be measured in situ, so you should be able to evaluate them quite easily, before troubling yourself with replacement.
Otherwise, use normal diagnostic procedures, starting with checking all the power supplies, and then compare the voltages on the PCBs to those given on the schematic. Sony schematics are usually well annotated.
As for the fusible resistors being out of spec, Goldie has suggested in an older thread that they can be measured in situ, so you should be able to evaluate them quite easily, before troubling yourself with replacement.
Otherwise, use normal diagnostic procedures, starting with checking all the power supplies, and then compare the voltages on the PCBs to those given on the schematic. Sony schematics are usually well annotated.
Thanks for the reply. I have checked the above-listed Fusible resistors and they are a fair way out of spec. I did replace R562 which is a 91ohm. When I replaced R562 with a 94ohn which is all I had at the time the amp would not come out of protection. I put the original resistor back in and it would run for around a minute and a half before going back into protection. I did change C516. C518, C520. The amp now runs.
Glad the caps made a difference, and hope the fix holds up.
C516-518 are shown as 10V caps, which despite being adequate for the circuit, perhaps aren't the best choice for longevity...
C516-518 are shown as 10V caps, which despite being adequate for the circuit, perhaps aren't the best choice for longevity...
I think the best option is to check each and every fusible first, replace all that are off spec. (in my case it was 14 out of 22.... the amp 'played' but with massive distortion), then adjust it for offset & bias and see where you are. Until the off-spec fusibles are all sorted the amp can't operate properly.