hi everyone
my design will cosist of a 3 way, 1st order series xo
theres many Faital 18" woofer with smooth roll off and no serious peak up top, making many of their woofers suitable for my projects
question is, which is their best for low spl?
cheers and many thanks for all the help!
my design will cosist of a 3 way, 1st order series xo
theres many Faital 18" woofer with smooth roll off and no serious peak up top, making many of their woofers suitable for my projects
question is, which is their best for low spl?
cheers and many thanks for all the help!
I used the Faital 18HF500 (8R version) crossed at 250Hz with a 2nd order filter, so at 100Hz it should work at 1st order (probally even higher). That was the smoothest availeble when i did build that box (not for me, for a client's garden system) in 2018. I'm not fully up to date what is availeble now from Faital, it may be that there are better.
Also their sensitivity are differs (compare the factory frequency responses), the most sensitive and highest efficient is the 18FH500, but it requires the largest box of them.
What midrange drivers are you considering, and what is the approximate crossover frequency you plan to use?
And how do you intend to drive them?
Active/ multiamp with 2kw available for the 18"s?
or requirements for "tiny" enclosure?
Reuirements for bandwidth? -(f3/6/10)
First order xos , points towards possibly passive and not huge amounts of power so..
From my reasoning that leaves you with 18FH500 ,18FH510, and 18FX600.
18FX600, has heavier cone, ca double rms, lower VAS,less efficiency, more xmax, stronger motor, alu. Demodulation ring.
More of a 'low bass driver from specs at least.
FH500 and FH10.
Both have lighter cones, lower RMS, higher efficiency, lower LE, much higher VAS (check fh500-16), higer qts, weaker motor etc.
If you really want to run your 18" up to 300hz to cross with a 6,5", these 2 are from specs better candidates at least.
They will require a larger enclosure, but are easier to drive with a amp, and likely have a better upper end, the "light" suspensions and high VAS makes them what many would consider:
Better at low volumes.
18fh500-16 ohm:
https://www.dibirama.altervista.org...8fh500-16-sub-woofer-18-16-ohm-1200-wmax.html
If you want a 18" sub, to cover 20hz with authority, 105 db+, and have a few kw amp power available for each. BMS 18N862 should be considered, as they also behave good upwards in Frequency.
Most designs with 15/18" woofers and a mid tend to use larger midranges (some choose mtm), for a better match in spl capability and polars etc.
Look at old JBL studiomonitor 3 ways and similar.
IMD from excursion, starts really becoming a factor below 100hz, klippel data would be nice for all 3 to make a choice, but depends on volume/use. Also if using subs separate might factor in on your choice.
PR170MO has 0.5mm xmax.
Not good below 300 due to rising distortion, certainly not with a first order slope, on the bottom to not be strained.
Imo you would be better off with a mid that covers the lower end better, instead of stretching both transducers to the limits. But might work. Also you did not inform on the top end or upper intended xos.
https://www.dibirama.altervista.org...audax-pr170m0-mid-range-6-8-ohm-200-wmax.html
Active/ multiamp with 2kw available for the 18"s?
or requirements for "tiny" enclosure?
Reuirements for bandwidth? -(f3/6/10)
First order xos , points towards possibly passive and not huge amounts of power so..
From my reasoning that leaves you with 18FH500 ,18FH510, and 18FX600.
18FX600, has heavier cone, ca double rms, lower VAS,less efficiency, more xmax, stronger motor, alu. Demodulation ring.
More of a 'low bass driver from specs at least.
FH500 and FH10.
Both have lighter cones, lower RMS, higher efficiency, lower LE, much higher VAS (check fh500-16), higer qts, weaker motor etc.
If you really want to run your 18" up to 300hz to cross with a 6,5", these 2 are from specs better candidates at least.
They will require a larger enclosure, but are easier to drive with a amp, and likely have a better upper end, the "light" suspensions and high VAS makes them what many would consider:
Better at low volumes.
18fh500-16 ohm:
https://www.dibirama.altervista.org...8fh500-16-sub-woofer-18-16-ohm-1200-wmax.html
If you want a 18" sub, to cover 20hz with authority, 105 db+, and have a few kw amp power available for each. BMS 18N862 should be considered, as they also behave good upwards in Frequency.
Most designs with 15/18" woofers and a mid tend to use larger midranges (some choose mtm), for a better match in spl capability and polars etc.
Look at old JBL studiomonitor 3 ways and similar.
IMD from excursion, starts really becoming a factor below 100hz, klippel data would be nice for all 3 to make a choice, but depends on volume/use. Also if using subs separate might factor in on your choice.
PR170MO has 0.5mm xmax.
Not good below 300 due to rising distortion, certainly not with a first order slope, on the bottom to not be strained.
Imo you would be better off with a mid that covers the lower end better, instead of stretching both transducers to the limits. But might work. Also you did not inform on the top end or upper intended xos.
https://www.dibirama.altervista.org...audax-pr170m0-mid-range-6-8-ohm-200-wmax.html
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that bit about 170mo
prob explain why that driver is not used everywhere
it works nice for under 105db needs with a 1st order xo at 300hz just fine, despite the HONEST data from audax. the 0.5mm xmax is MUCH MORE then most designer/engineer think.
try the driver, thank me later
Also love the PR170mo, but have to ask you.
Have you tried the Audax as low as 300 hz before?
Some people say´s it sound a little "hollow" under 430-ish hz, but sometimes you should go you´r own way.
Albert uses them in his Von Schweikert vr 4 sr, and also the Audax PR170Z0, think they was crossed at 190 hz and 1900 hz.
And Albert is in my eye´s one of the absolute best speakerdesigner that have lived, nobody could find and use drivers "to their best" like he could.
/John
I am well aware the PR170MO is a nice little midrange driver with high efficiency, also the foam surround leaves no large cone resonances in the usual range as many hifi woofers have, it is well behaved from 300-3k+. Price is fair, and performance is good, and it is a well known driver that been used in many a design.
I suspect we only look at the definition of a first order crossover at 300hz differently.
Actually, most my favorite "midrange" drivers have limited excursion.
If you want assuming a 5,5" cone. 105 db, 3db down at XO 102 db @ 300hz, if you have a first order crossover that means the midrange will be only down do to 96db/150hz,90/75hz ,84/37,5 hz. 3 octaves down. meaning it needs 1/2/4+ mm of excursion to keep up that level, else you do not have a first order crossover, without counting in any baffle step loss.
And this midrange clearly is not suited to do 84db at 37,5hz requiring over 4 mm of xmax, also visible in the measurements, that is where my conclusion comes from, so i suspect our definition of a xo is all that is different 🙂
A first order electrical high pass filter, added to the PR170MOs slope from your chosen alignment, crossing around 300hz does not result in a first order crossover., but can work.
As for 100DB bass drivers at 18" they are rare.
The Faitals you can expect a real 94-97 db, that is without counting in bafflestep etc.
The PR170 95 db ish.
With your amp i would look at the FH500 and FH510, if Fatital is your choice.
Look at the efficiency numbers, suspension compliance,low/controlled inductance, VAS, third party measurements, and the other specs you value.
Hello,
For home use, depending on crossover and assuming below 120hz crossover.
Would it be better to have more speakers in th room if possible or one big 18" driver ?
We could imagine 4 12" long throw in every corner, could be better for stationary waves and same spl.
I am myself using PHL 1040 drivers which come from pr170mo, great drivers !
Below sealed BMS 15s330 but would need help below 60hz depending on level and music.
For home use, depending on crossover and assuming below 120hz crossover.
Would it be better to have more speakers in th room if possible or one big 18" driver ?
We could imagine 4 12" long throw in every corner, could be better for stationary waves and same spl.
I am myself using PHL 1040 drivers which come from pr170mo, great drivers !
Below sealed BMS 15s330 but would need help below 60hz depending on level and music.
Greets!
It's a 'no-brainer' for me from long experience with corner horns, high end HT systems, but suggest reading this, then decide.
It's a 'no-brainer' for me from long experience with corner horns, high end HT systems, but suggest reading this, then decide.