Hi Everyone,
I've finally come to terms with the fact that the speakers I want to buy are out of my price range and am now seriously looking into building my own. I'm hoping that the wide knowledge base on this forum can help point me in the right direction to get started. I will acknowledge that what I'm looking for might not exist in a perfect form, so I'm also open to hearing about good compromises.
First: My situation is a bit tricky. I have a long, narrow room that acts as a living room, dining room, and kitchen. Hooray for condo living! It's approximately 12' wide by 40' long. The speakers can't come very far out into the room, as they would invade the living room area. Ideally, the front baffle would be less than 20" out from the baseboard of the front wall. If I have to pull the speakers out every time I want to listen to them (not preferred), 50" would be the absolute most. As a bonus aid/hinderance, there's an extra 5" of depth above 25" off of the ground, but it's a window (usually covered by blinds). That also rules out on-wall speakers.
I've attached a photo taken from the kitchen. Just on the other side of the pile of records on the dining table is the "listening chair". The listening chair is 11' back from the front wall and the kitchen is another 15' feet back from there. You can see how little wiggle room I have in terms of placement.
The function of these speakers would be for "serious" listening in the chair and for playing fun music while cooking in the kitchen. Things I care about: a dynamic, lively, and exciting sound that can also be full and lush when called for. Things I don't care as much about: an expansive soundstage with pinpoint imaging and the deepest deep bass extension. If I don't feel the emotion of Leonard Cohen or Nick Drake, or the euphoric highs of GY!BE or Pharoah Sanders, or if I'm not dancing along to The Kinks or Stereolab in the kitchen, then these will have been a miss.
These will be playing 80% vinyl, 20% CD rips and Tidal streaming through Roon. I currently have a Peachtree Nova 150 class D integrated amp. Bonus points for speakers that are efficient enough to be driven by the Nelson Pass designs here, but I imagine that might throw recommendations off at this stage.
I'm willing to spend about $2K, but notice that lots of popular kits are a lot cheaper than that. If you think an expensive build would be lost on me in my room, that would be good to know! Common (and good) wisdom would probably say to start with a cheaper build to figure things out and then build the more expensive ones, but my wife already thinks we're drowning in speakers, so I'm looking for a pair that will last us a while. I'll measure ten times, cut once. A kit with pre-cut cabinet panels would be very nice, as I don't have immediate access to the space and tools required to make my own.
I'd love some recommendations on specific kits, but general things to look out for that would suit my needs are also welcome. Do you think a sealed box, front-ported, or transmission line cabinet would work best? Full-range single drivers are interesting, but would I be better served by a 2- or 3-way speaker? Stand-mount or floorstanding? Or something way-out there? That could be interesting too, if it works.
I look forward to hearing what you all think and am excited for this project!
I've finally come to terms with the fact that the speakers I want to buy are out of my price range and am now seriously looking into building my own. I'm hoping that the wide knowledge base on this forum can help point me in the right direction to get started. I will acknowledge that what I'm looking for might not exist in a perfect form, so I'm also open to hearing about good compromises.
First: My situation is a bit tricky. I have a long, narrow room that acts as a living room, dining room, and kitchen. Hooray for condo living! It's approximately 12' wide by 40' long. The speakers can't come very far out into the room, as they would invade the living room area. Ideally, the front baffle would be less than 20" out from the baseboard of the front wall. If I have to pull the speakers out every time I want to listen to them (not preferred), 50" would be the absolute most. As a bonus aid/hinderance, there's an extra 5" of depth above 25" off of the ground, but it's a window (usually covered by blinds). That also rules out on-wall speakers.
I've attached a photo taken from the kitchen. Just on the other side of the pile of records on the dining table is the "listening chair". The listening chair is 11' back from the front wall and the kitchen is another 15' feet back from there. You can see how little wiggle room I have in terms of placement.
The function of these speakers would be for "serious" listening in the chair and for playing fun music while cooking in the kitchen. Things I care about: a dynamic, lively, and exciting sound that can also be full and lush when called for. Things I don't care as much about: an expansive soundstage with pinpoint imaging and the deepest deep bass extension. If I don't feel the emotion of Leonard Cohen or Nick Drake, or the euphoric highs of GY!BE or Pharoah Sanders, or if I'm not dancing along to The Kinks or Stereolab in the kitchen, then these will have been a miss.
These will be playing 80% vinyl, 20% CD rips and Tidal streaming through Roon. I currently have a Peachtree Nova 150 class D integrated amp. Bonus points for speakers that are efficient enough to be driven by the Nelson Pass designs here, but I imagine that might throw recommendations off at this stage.
I'm willing to spend about $2K, but notice that lots of popular kits are a lot cheaper than that. If you think an expensive build would be lost on me in my room, that would be good to know! Common (and good) wisdom would probably say to start with a cheaper build to figure things out and then build the more expensive ones, but my wife already thinks we're drowning in speakers, so I'm looking for a pair that will last us a while. I'll measure ten times, cut once. A kit with pre-cut cabinet panels would be very nice, as I don't have immediate access to the space and tools required to make my own.
I'd love some recommendations on specific kits, but general things to look out for that would suit my needs are also welcome. Do you think a sealed box, front-ported, or transmission line cabinet would work best? Full-range single drivers are interesting, but would I be better served by a 2- or 3-way speaker? Stand-mount or floorstanding? Or something way-out there? That could be interesting too, if it works.
I look forward to hearing what you all think and am excited for this project!
Just made some posts about Poplar which is designed to sit right against the wall, 150mm deep.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/alpair-maop-10-2.378493/post-7272100
dave
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/alpair-maop-10-2.378493/post-7272100
dave
Your room reminds me of radio/recording studios, so angled soffit mount, which allows sideways (ML) TLs, near corner loading.
The room width is enough for dynamic, wide imaging corner speakers, however it's hard to find good corner speaker kits. For a small space you want a larger speaker specifically for the purpose of acoustic control.
For kit ideas I'd take a look at Wayne Parham's designs.
For kit ideas I'd take a look at Wayne Parham's designs.
That's right. However you can also get good bass with speakers toward a quarter the way in, and the same with the height. A larger freestanding type speaker can be kind of close to the wall as well.
I thought that generally the bigger the speaker, the bigger the room would need to be?
That has been the consensus of some in the past. I struggle to understand why beyond matters of setup challenges, or maybe because no bass means less modal problems.
However the more control a speaker has the smaller it makes itself acoustically. The standard method is to use a larger speaker, preferrably with a helpful baffle scheme.. the simplest example being a waveguide, but a large flat baffle restricts radiation too.
When you have full control of a band of frequencies you can place the speaker very close to a wall. Bass modes tend to take into account the opposite walls to a greater degree but you can control this with multiple subs. Their spatial diversity helps, and they don't necessarily need to be large.
However the more control a speaker has the smaller it makes itself acoustically. The standard method is to use a larger speaker, preferrably with a helpful baffle scheme.. the simplest example being a waveguide, but a large flat baffle restricts radiation too.
When you have full control of a band of frequencies you can place the speaker very close to a wall. Bass modes tend to take into account the opposite walls to a greater degree but you can control this with multiple subs. Their spatial diversity helps, and they don't necessarily need to be large.
Right, just need a big enough baffle as the pioneers proved with their cinema bass horns and some folks put hinged add on panels on small and/or narrow cabs to handle BSC, focus its polar response to a lower frequency.
Unfortunately not 😆 If that is a semi-serious proposal, could you have the right speaker against one wall like that, not in a corner?
SO: small/narrow footprint, near-wall placement, good sensitivity to use with low power Pass amp, can boogie when the occasion arises. "Drowning in speakers", so ideally no separate sub needed. Not wildly expensive, limited shop space so a straightforward cabinet build (maybe hire out the basic square cuts and assemble/finish at home).
Uluwatu?
Kit @ Madisound
Commentary
Sensitivity:
Ease of construction:
Placement:
Dynamics and dancing in the kitchen:
I've never heard them but I'm really attracted to the design. Maybe overkill for your room, but nothing says you have to turn them all the way up. 🙂
Bill
Well, it has to work with your life and if the shelving is cleavable that might be passable w/o torpedoing traffic (given a flipped room and still functioning doorway). If a little stubby faux wall works you could use one (like the khorn people w/o corners use). Even a couple feet of bookshelf might help but usually people want closer to 4'. I've lived with corner horns and only one good corner and wall+2 feet on the other--in truth it's never really possible to completely balance them the same w/o changing the filters to account for differing boundary support but it "works". That's just one idea of a kit that could put a bunch of ~dynamic sound into the whole space & still cross in front of your sofa (and not need a bunch of distance to "come together"/integrate). IMO, it's worth your time posting on the Pi forum to see what Wayne thinks for the space and for your needs. Maybe some combination of Pi kit parts and GM's suggested soffit-type (30/60) packaging works better. The smaller Pi kits either would need subs or trade some LF, but you could trade some clarity for more LF in your own custom thing. It really is about pragmatism. In your building, maybe you don't Want real low bass (neighbors), etc. Maybe a switcher and small flotilla of stuff works better for kitchen w/o having to crank things higher and so on. Options. FWIW.
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Thanks for the recommendation, Bill! It looks like a good one. I assume you mean overkill sonically, but it looks like it might be a bit overkill on the space front too, unfortunately. It might be partly due to the black front on the example in the photos, but a four foot stack of drivers might take over the room visually. I appreciate the suggestion though! I'm sure they sound great.
I'm curious what the advantage of having 6 of the same driver is over having one larger driver? Or probably two drivers in this case, since they're crossed over into two groups. I understand that larger drivers tend to beam more. I wonder if in my case of firing down a narrow room, a slightly beam-ier setup could be advantageous? Is this what Allen was talking about with a large flat woofer restricting radiation?
I'm curious what the advantage of having 6 of the same driver is over having one larger driver? Or probably two drivers in this case, since they're crossed over into two groups. I understand that larger drivers tend to beam more. I wonder if in my case of firing down a narrow room, a slightly beam-ier setup could be advantageous? Is this what Allen was talking about with a large flat woofer restricting radiation?
Thanks for the recommendation! I'm definitely interested in Poplars and the Pensils.
Single drivers are very interesting to me, but I've never heard one. A lot of the descriptors - like coherent, dynamic, and engaging - are very appealing. It seems like the people who love them and write about them mainly listen to small acoustic jazz and chamber groups and solo vocalists. What would you expect from listening to more complex amplified music? Would Talking Heads just turn to mush?