Hello!
Who had built a bass tower with multiple AE DIPOLE 18
https://aespeakers.com/shop/dipole/dipole18/
It is going to cover under 160Hz.
Any suggestions?
Do you have plans to share for the application?
Thanks!
Who had built a bass tower with multiple AE DIPOLE 18
https://aespeakers.com/shop/dipole/dipole18/
It is going to cover under 160Hz.
Any suggestions?
Do you have plans to share for the application?
Thanks!
@WFCkeyman I have two of those AE18 drivers that I planned to build exactly what you posted.
My testing started with them reproducing sub-bass along side my KEF iQ90
In all honesty I was blown away with the type of bass they produced, but not so much by the output.
This made me rethink what my goals and expectations were, so I changed from using them as subwoofers for the KEF iQ90
Sealed subwoofers with lots of amplifier power is a closer match for the KEF iQ90...
That being said, the AE18 still need a pairing, a baffle and further testing to see where they will live and how they will be used
So I started testing the AE18 with the Beyma TPL200 (open back) the sound stage with this rig cannot be matched with my KEF iQ90 and Quad 15" Subwoofers, and I've only just scratch the surface.
I did miss out on a 2nd pair of AE18 drivers so I am yet to test quad AE18 with tops.
Pictured below is the inspirational quad AE15 that enticed me into buying the AE18 in the first place.
One day 🤞
My testing started with them reproducing sub-bass along side my KEF iQ90
In all honesty I was blown away with the type of bass they produced, but not so much by the output.
This made me rethink what my goals and expectations were, so I changed from using them as subwoofers for the KEF iQ90
Sealed subwoofers with lots of amplifier power is a closer match for the KEF iQ90...
That being said, the AE18 still need a pairing, a baffle and further testing to see where they will live and how they will be used
So I started testing the AE18 with the Beyma TPL200 (open back) the sound stage with this rig cannot be matched with my KEF iQ90 and Quad 15" Subwoofers, and I've only just scratch the surface.
I did miss out on a 2nd pair of AE18 drivers so I am yet to test quad AE18 with tops.
Pictured below is the inspirational quad AE15 that enticed me into buying the AE18 in the first place.
One day 🤞
In the above picture, the absence of a U-frame has high cost in terms of maximum output. Putting those huge woofers on a 20 inch wide baffle means you are losing output below 100 Hz. I pushed the cancellation frequency down to 35 or 40Hz in this design
and used a 110Hz series wired LC crossover between the bass-mid (top driver, which is a concentric horn) and the 2 15” subwoofers. The U-frame is a 150 Hz short transmission line but that is above the low pass crossover frequency so it doesn’t interfere. Very happy with the results:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/ultimate-open-baffle-gallery.123512/page-173#post-6682515
If you employ a similar approach, you will increase the maximum output of your AE18s at low frequencies by at least 10 dB.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/ultimate-open-baffle-gallery.123512/page-173#post-6682515
If you employ a similar approach, you will increase the maximum output of your AE18s at low frequencies by at least 10 dB.
This design is quite a bit smaller and lighter but still pushes the cancellation frequency down to 60Hz, for an output increase of about 6dB:
Details at https://s3.amazonaws.com/psma-website-assets/live_edge_dipoles.pdf
Details at https://s3.amazonaws.com/psma-website-assets/live_edge_dipoles.pdf
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I’ve a used quad of AE Dipole 18 that fell into my lap for peanuts a few years back.
So far I experimented with them baffleless running Lii Audio Crystal 10 up top.
They sounded pretty good…still required a sub for the very bottom end to sound right.
I got over enthusiastic with them playing some dubstep one day and bottomed out a voicecoil because I didn’t set a high pass on my Hypex amps driving them. Tough lesson learned.
I have it back from AE rebuilt for a little while now but haven’t had time to try them in a new OB setup yet.
I’m considering just building push-pull slot loaded bass units with them to use under horns.
So far I experimented with them baffleless running Lii Audio Crystal 10 up top.
They sounded pretty good…still required a sub for the very bottom end to sound right.
I got over enthusiastic with them playing some dubstep one day and bottomed out a voicecoil because I didn’t set a high pass on my Hypex amps driving them. Tough lesson learned.
I have it back from AE rebuilt for a little while now but haven’t had time to try them in a new OB setup yet.
I’m considering just building push-pull slot loaded bass units with them to use under horns.
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@perrymarshall I'm going to look at your links before i reply to your comments, extension below 100Hz is an absolute must if I'm to keep these AE18's so will be very intrigued by the U-Frame design 🤔
@chromenuts its interesting that you use the push pull design as the guy i purchased my AE18 from also uses this design... the sound stage was mind blowing, but as @perrymarshall said the output below 100Hz was there but not as pronounced as the audio above 100Hz
He did tell me he's taken some stick for this design, but it actually sounded amazing, I was very impressed.
Just a little more in the subwoofer region would of ticked the last box for me personally 🤓
He did tell me he's taken some stick for this design, but it actually sounded amazing, I was very impressed.
Just a little more in the subwoofer region would of ticked the last box for me personally 🤓
Yup…Vic’s original lengthy evolution of the concept thread on Lenco Heaven here for reference…
https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=6g2c9n1ej1nkhteel3271to332&topic=31371.0
I came across it when I was reading up on the Terminator years ago.
He uses the Dayton UM series woofers with very high xmax now I believe.
The concept was discussed with quite a bit of testing recently in a thread on here…
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...m-open-baffleless-full-range-speakers.374043/
https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=6g2c9n1ej1nkhteel3271to332&topic=31371.0
I came across it when I was reading up on the Terminator years ago.
He uses the Dayton UM series woofers with very high xmax now I believe.
The concept was discussed with quite a bit of testing recently in a thread on here…
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...m-open-baffleless-full-range-speakers.374043/
The Bitches Brews are EQ'd and in the room response is flat down to 25Hz. They do not produce "pant leg flapping" 20Hz bass but they certainly put out more deep bass than the vast majority of $$$$$ audiophile speakers, and above 40Hz they have all the slam and high SPLs you could ever ask for. Below is in-room listener position response:
Below is my parametric EQ for the bass+bassmid section (SB Acoustics 15OB350+ B&C 15CXN88) which runs 20Hz-1100Hz. There are no other crossover filters on this section beyond what you see here. The dips at 40 and 75 cancel out standing waves in my particular room. Basically what this graph is saying is that the needed DSP bass boost begins at about 40Hz. Relative to the mid bass, the deep bass is +10dB at 25hz.
A similar approach with the AE18s would give you all the deep bass you want, I believe, and relatively speaking you only need to add 10dB of bass boost to reach down to 25 or even 20Hz.
I'm using a MiniDSP Flex Eight here. The Bitches Brew links above include config files for MiniDSP 2x4HD.
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Quick update for those interested, but having calculated the space around the Beyma TPL200 and its frequency range I've been looking at a small enough driver to fill the gap between that and the ae18 dipole.
With 9 drivers wired series/parallel with an overall Impedance the same as one 1 driver I've moved my design to this for now... maybe just the 1 x 18" below the mids/top section as I only have 2 of those currently 😅
With 9 drivers wired series/parallel with an overall Impedance the same as one 1 driver I've moved my design to this for now... maybe just the 1 x 18" below the mids/top section as I only have 2 of those currently 😅
These AE18 are indeed very appealing for OB constructs, mainly because of their high Qts at 0.9 and theirs low Fres at 23Hz. Compared e.g. to a 18" pro driver with a Qts of 0.4 and a Fres at 30Hz (the data if a FaitalPro 18XL1800), the AE18 e.g. at 30Hz (marked by the cursors) has an 8dB higher SPL output than this FaitalPro for more or less equal electrical input. So the AE18 calls for substantially less amplifier power than the FaitalPro: At 30Hz, the FaitalPro roughly needs six times (!) more amplifier input than the AE18 to be equally loud. See the graph below.
- Red (Fres=23Hz/Qts=0.9) and Green (30Hz/0.4) correspond to the manufacurer's specs on infinite baffle.
- Black is a terminal -6dB/oct dipole characteristic for a typically acoustically small baffle (d<lambda, which is mostly the case for home-fitting baffles at low frequencies)
This said for the merits of the AE18, for my gusto the AE website and theirs "info" policy simply sucks. They are a wee bet too mouthfully praising theirs "unique" magnet system for lowest distortion figures. Ok, marketing ********, then, let's pass ... But because of this highly pitched praising or their design I would have also expected some more conclusive IM and HD measures of an assembled woofer shown as well. De nada. Nothing. Silence ... The fact that this more objective info part is missing leads me to the conclusion that the whole end product might not be more shining than any other, properly demodulated, well designed and well built woofer from any other serious pro manufacturer. And therefore, I would be very interested to see some standardized THD measurements from one of the diyaudio posters using this Qts-wise very interesting and special, dipole-appropriate AE18. Real measurements. Please. If possible.
Final question: Does anyone know about other and similar woofer candidates with a low-Fres / high Qts characteristic?
- Red (Fres=23Hz/Qts=0.9) and Green (30Hz/0.4) correspond to the manufacurer's specs on infinite baffle.
- Black is a terminal -6dB/oct dipole characteristic for a typically acoustically small baffle (d<lambda, which is mostly the case for home-fitting baffles at low frequencies)
- Brown and Blue are the drivers specs convolved with the dipol characteristic of the acoustically small dipole baffle
- Grey is the AE18 gain vs. the FaitalPro. The advantage is highest at relative +9dB around 23Hz.
This said for the merits of the AE18, for my gusto the AE website and theirs "info" policy simply sucks. They are a wee bet too mouthfully praising theirs "unique" magnet system for lowest distortion figures. Ok, marketing ********, then, let's pass ... But because of this highly pitched praising or their design I would have also expected some more conclusive IM and HD measures of an assembled woofer shown as well. De nada. Nothing. Silence ... The fact that this more objective info part is missing leads me to the conclusion that the whole end product might not be more shining than any other, properly demodulated, well designed and well built woofer from any other serious pro manufacturer. And therefore, I would be very interested to see some standardized THD measurements from one of the diyaudio posters using this Qts-wise very interesting and special, dipole-appropriate AE18. Real measurements. Please. If possible.
Final question: Does anyone know about other and similar woofer candidates with a low-Fres / high Qts characteristic?