Hi, I finally have the space for big horns and my plan was to BIB the FE206e but then there's also Sachiko, Kirishima, Vulcan.. so I would like to hear your comments which one to build.
My room is appr 10m x 6m, corner loading is a problem and would like to put the horns near back wall. The Sachiko/Kirishima would be ok but Vulcan needs some breathing room behind the speaker? I have found 21mm BB ply for "good" price and that means I need to recalculate the part dims for Kirishima. Don't know about Sachiko because haven't seen the plans for it.
So here's my thoughts:
-BIB: I don't like driver's position, its too high. Can't corner load. Easy to build.
-Sachiko / Kirishima: looks best IMO. Positioning is ok in the room. 18mm plans vs 21mm ply and building is more time consuming than BIB
-Vulcan: very cool look but I assume they are not easy to fit in my room.
I've had the FE206e's in the Fostex recommended BLH and in an OB with 15" woofers (active xos at 250Hz) and they have phase plugs. At the moment I have TABAQs (https://audioxpress.com/article/TABAQ-Tang-Band-Quarter-Wave) speakers, amp is 6AS7G OTL but I also have two SE tube (45 and 6AS7G) amps to try with the horns.
Any opinions?
My room is appr 10m x 6m, corner loading is a problem and would like to put the horns near back wall. The Sachiko/Kirishima would be ok but Vulcan needs some breathing room behind the speaker? I have found 21mm BB ply for "good" price and that means I need to recalculate the part dims for Kirishima. Don't know about Sachiko because haven't seen the plans for it.
So here's my thoughts:
-BIB: I don't like driver's position, its too high. Can't corner load. Easy to build.
-Sachiko / Kirishima: looks best IMO. Positioning is ok in the room. 18mm plans vs 21mm ply and building is more time consuming than BIB
-Vulcan: very cool look but I assume they are not easy to fit in my room.
I've had the FE206e's in the Fostex recommended BLH and in an OB with 15" woofers (active xos at 250Hz) and they have phase plugs. At the moment I have TABAQs (https://audioxpress.com/article/TABAQ-Tang-Band-Quarter-Wave) speakers, amp is 6AS7G OTL but I also have two SE tube (45 and 6AS7G) amps to try with the horns.
Any opinions?
Re your three hyphenated points:
-No: ideally the BIB is actually best suited to use in or near corners. You can shorten it (i.e. tune a bit higher), while ideally maintaining the same Vb to lower the driver position if desired.
-'Your choice' as far as time-investment goes. 😉 It doesn't need 21mm although there's no harm in it; the difference in rigidity assuming the same sheet material type isn't huge. Sachiko was Kirishima's predecessor, the latter replacing it.
-No, Vulcan is a boundary loaded horn so is specifically designed to be used quite close to room boundaries (front wall and / or corners); they form the final part of the horn expansion so assuming reasonably rigid / solid construction, you get a more linear response as it's impedance matched to a lower frequency, and a cleaner acoustic low-pass into the bargain than if they were positioned away from boundaries.
-No: ideally the BIB is actually best suited to use in or near corners. You can shorten it (i.e. tune a bit higher), while ideally maintaining the same Vb to lower the driver position if desired.
-'Your choice' as far as time-investment goes. 😉 It doesn't need 21mm although there's no harm in it; the difference in rigidity assuming the same sheet material type isn't huge. Sachiko was Kirishima's predecessor, the latter replacing it.
-No, Vulcan is a boundary loaded horn so is specifically designed to be used quite close to room boundaries (front wall and / or corners); they form the final part of the horn expansion so assuming reasonably rigid / solid construction, you get a more linear response as it's impedance matched to a lower frequency, and a cleaner acoustic low-pass into the bargain than if they were positioned away from boundaries.
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Hi Scott,
thank you for the reply! The reason for 21mm ply is that I found it cheaper from one shop than 18mm BB. Haven't bought any yet so open to 18mm also. I would make the BIB 220cm tall if I'm going that route. No reason to loose the lower tuning if the only reason is aesthetic (and maybe it will help with the sound also when they're a bit off from listening height).
About the Sachiko vs Kirishima, maybe the newer is better then 🙂 I need to read more about the Vulcan. I've seen the pictures and thought that they're not for me because they are back firing. You're the designer so I take what you say. I can leave the speakers appr. 15-20 cm off from back wall easily if it's enough. Maybe I'll order the plans from you some day 😉
Thanks!
Pete
thank you for the reply! The reason for 21mm ply is that I found it cheaper from one shop than 18mm BB. Haven't bought any yet so open to 18mm also. I would make the BIB 220cm tall if I'm going that route. No reason to loose the lower tuning if the only reason is aesthetic (and maybe it will help with the sound also when they're a bit off from listening height).
About the Sachiko vs Kirishima, maybe the newer is better then 🙂 I need to read more about the Vulcan. I've seen the pictures and thought that they're not for me because they are back firing. You're the designer so I take what you say. I can leave the speakers appr. 15-20 cm off from back wall easily if it's enough. Maybe I'll order the plans from you some day 😉
Thanks!
Pete
Not a problem. Re the BIB, if you go down that route, remember to account for any series R (including amplifier output impedance) in circuit as it will raise the effective Q & thereby box size. Assuming you're using one of the calculators, it will have volume on its side, as GM gave it quite a flexible / higher gain alignment, so there is a bit of leaverage there, but worth keeping in mind.
I have planned to make it 220*35*25cm (H*D*W inside dimensions). Qts something between 0.25-0.30 when using the calculator. I don't know any of my amps output impedances.
The lone pair I auditioned in a ~38" seated ear height MLTL needed so much CD horn EQ I couldn't get far enough off axis in any direction to tone it all the way down enough at the time. 🙁
I'm not surprised. Even with a shed-load of EQ & the sort of mods Dave used to do, I've never heard the 206E work all that well in anything other than a horn variation (and not all that many of those either 😉 ). Rising response aside, they just seemed to need a broader BW loading to get them reasonably balanced, preferably with the mid & upper bass juiced a bit.
Note that Kirishima is a free plan, you are on your own adjusting for 21mm. Vulcan, which costs something, comes with plans for 18, 19, 20, and 21 mm as well as ¾”, if someone comes along with another thickness (15mm is likely sufficient) i will add them to the planset.
dave
dave
Yes, it's quite pointy driver. Dave -style phase plug helps a bit. They can sound very good but you can't move your head when you're in the sweet spot 😕 I still like them and it's a shame they're in the warehouse at the moment. I didn't use any baffle step correction last time with them and would like to use them without again. The Tabaqs has BSC circuit at the moment.
Well, I have to choose one build and stop wondering! If I can find affordable wood shop which will cut the panels I think it's Kirishima time. If not BIB it is.
you could make a K12 or K12 sized Karlson (perhaps the "Dutch K12") that's nominally 24.5" high by 16.75" wide by ~13.75" deep. I drove that combo with a Crown XLS 2500. If you keep the cutout for a 12" speaker then that's flexibility to mount 8/10 or 12" drivers.
I cheated…found a nice pair already built recently.
I’m having fun with them…big back horns was something I always wanted to experience since I got into DIY.
Had trouble with the time, commitment and space in the garage.
I think there was something similar at BAF2019 that really left an impression on me as well…maybe not a double mouth, but a large back horn based on a modified Lowther I believe.
Anyway…my vote is do it if you can 👍
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Nice set! I bet it sounds wonderful!
Not sure about Karlson but thanks for the tip! Will read more about it later.
Not sure about Karlson but thanks for the tip! Will read more about it later.
Well I will build BIB. Baltic birch ply 18mm except the slant from cheaper ply. There's appr 30cm between the top of the BIB and the ceiling and they will be near walls. Can't put them into corners.
