Hi there,
this is my first post here, so a little bit about myself first:
Got into "hifi" via headphones around 2002 (still there), did some DIY-Headphone amps
and ended up designing DIY-speakers 😎 Going active since MiniDSPs were already there...
I'm here to show my work and hopefully get some input to improve my work 🙂
This is my third design from scratch, the purify woofers tempted me and
I got my hands on a pair of nice "finished" speakers that the previous owner built
but never finished the crossover.
That's what they look like:
Driven by MiniDSP DDRC24 and IcePower 50ASX2 / 125ASX2
Here's my measurement setup:
Raw measurements:
For crossover developement and simulation I use VituixCAD.
Here's my latest iteration:
I'm not completely happy atm since they're still sounding a bit "bright" listening to Heavy Metal (what I mostly do 🤘).
So much for today - any comment / hint / question is welcome!
this is my first post here, so a little bit about myself first:
Got into "hifi" via headphones around 2002 (still there), did some DIY-Headphone amps
and ended up designing DIY-speakers 😎 Going active since MiniDSPs were already there...
I'm here to show my work and hopefully get some input to improve my work 🙂
This is my third design from scratch, the purify woofers tempted me and
I got my hands on a pair of nice "finished" speakers that the previous owner built
but never finished the crossover.
That's what they look like:
Driven by MiniDSP DDRC24 and IcePower 50ASX2 / 125ASX2
Here's my measurement setup:
Raw measurements:
For crossover developement and simulation I use VituixCAD.
Here's my latest iteration:
I'm not completely happy atm since they're still sounding a bit "bright" listening to Heavy Metal (what I mostly do 🤘).
So much for today - any comment / hint / question is welcome!
Nice looking build, well done. Measurements look also well done.
Got to agree, I am also a metal listener (almost exclusively) and have found a flat on axis response is too bright and needed a 3-4dB slope from around 300hz to 15khz to sound good. So you might try adding another dB or so attenuation to the tweeter and then juggle the crossover position to flatten out any dip or peak that appears.
Do keep us updated.
Got to agree, I am also a metal listener (almost exclusively) and have found a flat on axis response is too bright and needed a 3-4dB slope from around 300hz to 15khz to sound good. So you might try adding another dB or so attenuation to the tweeter and then juggle the crossover position to flatten out any dip or peak that appears.
Do keep us updated.
Have you only modeled the system response? Final system measurements should be validated.
Do you have side wall absorptive panels at the first reflection? These can wreak havoc and make recordings brighter than than they are.
Do you have a protection cap on the tweeter? The amplifier will see a near short in load from those ribbons, even if previously highpassed. It could be the amplifier complaining at the load presented. I recommend a 30uF Clarity CSA, ASC 386X/387X, or Audyn Q4 for this purpose. The ASC may smooth things out a bit too.
If all of the above do not help, and the further tilt suggested earlier does not either, then a small 1-2dB dip from 900-4k can bring the forwardness down. Is it best for directivity and perfect measurements, no. However, it may sound better for your tastes.
Do you have side wall absorptive panels at the first reflection? These can wreak havoc and make recordings brighter than than they are.
Do you have a protection cap on the tweeter? The amplifier will see a near short in load from those ribbons, even if previously highpassed. It could be the amplifier complaining at the load presented. I recommend a 30uF Clarity CSA, ASC 386X/387X, or Audyn Q4 for this purpose. The ASC may smooth things out a bit too.
If all of the above do not help, and the further tilt suggested earlier does not either, then a small 1-2dB dip from 900-4k can bring the forwardness down. Is it best for directivity and perfect measurements, no. However, it may sound better for your tastes.
Good job on the anechoic on axis and LW response and directivity. But that is neither required or sufficient.
You don’t have enough “punch” in the mid-bass and your treble is too high. Otherwise guitars will shred your ears off.
Before you make wild changes to your crossover, add some PEQ to tune in a response room curve that closely approximates something like this:
@100Hz and 10KHz mark, and your ears will thank you:
You don’t have enough “punch” in the mid-bass and your treble is too high. Otherwise guitars will shred your ears off.
Before you make wild changes to your crossover, add some PEQ to tune in a response room curve that closely approximates something like this:
@100Hz and 10KHz mark, and your ears will thank you:
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Hi there,
I just ordered some caps, wanted to do this anyway since my
DDRC24 sometimes gives a nasty pop while switching on.
Avoiding this atm by turning on the amp later manually.
As for the frequency response - this is not my first speaker
and I have very good experience with a "flat" frequency response
and steady energy response.
This little gem here does not sound that forward here in my room,
despite having a very similar frequency response:
Coming to the in-room-response - very good and important point!
After EQ here (making things much better!)
Here's the fr using the "psychoacoustic" smoothing of REW.
From my experiece, this comes very close to what I really hear.
The peak around 450Hz does not seem to be "real" since
eqing it makes no difference.
Room is quite heavily damped, first reflections on the sides are damped, ceiling is yet to come
and I need a new carpet since the one a have at the moment doesn't help much:
If you wonder about the very low reverberation time - the room has a 7cm
thick acoustic ceiling which works down to about 200Hz.
I just ordered some caps, wanted to do this anyway since my
DDRC24 sometimes gives a nasty pop while switching on.
Avoiding this atm by turning on the amp later manually.
As for the frequency response - this is not my first speaker
and I have very good experience with a "flat" frequency response
and steady energy response.
This little gem here does not sound that forward here in my room,
despite having a very similar frequency response:
Coming to the in-room-response - very good and important point!
After EQ here (making things much better!)
Here's the fr using the "psychoacoustic" smoothing of REW.
From my experiece, this comes very close to what I really hear.
The peak around 450Hz does not seem to be "real" since
eqing it makes no difference.
Room is quite heavily damped, first reflections on the sides are damped, ceiling is yet to come
and I need a new carpet since the one a have at the moment doesn't help much:
If you wonder about the very low reverberation time - the room has a 7cm
thick acoustic ceiling which works down to about 200Hz.
^^^
What wolf said. Single most important aspect.
IMHO… measured @ 1m to verify your design.
And how does the heavy metal sound when you are listening to the speakers outdoors? (As measured)
And then measured at the listening position, as we cannot tell what your room is doing.
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Do you mind sharing raw measurement .mdat files for woofer and tweeter so we can import them in Vituix ?
Here the link to all the data you might need:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oj-L8EE9Wbm8BZU5nslDbdZ1gH0kYtMr?usp=sharing
I also did a measurement of the complete speaker for evaluatiuon,
but only in my room - yet it I saw no relevant deviation from simulation.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1oj-L8EE9Wbm8BZU5nslDbdZ1gH0kYtMr?usp=sharing
I also did a measurement of the complete speaker for evaluatiuon,
but only in my room - yet it I saw no relevant deviation from simulation.
I LOVE the RPG Skylines!
And I agree re: a capacitor on the ribbon. Solen Electronique's 9A active monitor is powered by Hypex FA253 modules, and Solen protects the midrange and tweeter with passive components (capacitors). https://solen.ca/en/products/solen-monitor9a-3way-active-bookshelf-monitor all my best,
john
Caps arrived today, but look what I found inside...
Is this a resistor?
The cap would be in the plus wire before the resistor then, correct?
Is this a resistor?
The cap would be in the plus wire before the resistor then, correct?
I'm confused, I thought you built these!? Shouldn't you have known the resistor was there if you had?
I know Viawave was having trouble with customs related damage and importation at one point. Maybe this was the fix they employed to avoid damage when the 9V touched the terminals in customs? I don't know how or why else the resistor would be there.
My thoughts would be to omit the resistor altogether and place the cap in its place. All the resistor is doing is making a solid load at DC and burning off power in heat. You'll need to adjust your tweeter levels for sure.
I know Viawave was having trouble with customs related damage and importation at one point. Maybe this was the fix they employed to avoid damage when the 9V touched the terminals in customs? I don't know how or why else the resistor would be there.
My thoughts would be to omit the resistor altogether and place the cap in its place. All the resistor is doing is making a solid load at DC and burning off power in heat. You'll need to adjust your tweeter levels for sure.
I bought the speakers "mechanically" finished but without a proper DSP setup.
The first owner moved on to something else ...
I just asked him about the resistor, I think he placed it there to lower the sound pressure of the tweeter and save digital attenuation.
Still waiting for his answer.
Caps are soldered in now and it might make a difference, but I'm not sure yet.
At least it gives me some sense of safety, since these tweeters are darn expensive....
The first owner moved on to something else ...
I just asked him about the resistor, I think he placed it there to lower the sound pressure of the tweeter and save digital attenuation.
Still waiting for his answer.
Caps are soldered in now and it might make a difference, but I'm not sure yet.
At least it gives me some sense of safety, since these tweeters are darn expensive....
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From what I can say at the moment the caps don't make a difference.
Or at least not as much that I would say I'm satisfied now.
I'll have to to some more measurements of the in-room-response and
move the speakers to another room for comparison.
(One downside of DSP-systems... you need to move ALL the stuff...)
As soon as it get's more friendly outside I'll also do measurements
of the speaker with my DSP-settings to verify everything.
From older projects I know that things were always close to identical.
At the moment I'm stuck with a 2Khz 24dB crossover, which I like more that the 12dB somehow.
I'll just leave it that way for a while and concentrate on room acoustics.
Sunday a friend a friend who is also into hifi will visit me, maybe he can give
me some helpful feedback too.
Or at least not as much that I would say I'm satisfied now.
I'll have to to some more measurements of the in-room-response and
move the speakers to another room for comparison.
(One downside of DSP-systems... you need to move ALL the stuff...)
As soon as it get's more friendly outside I'll also do measurements
of the speaker with my DSP-settings to verify everything.
From older projects I know that things were always close to identical.
At the moment I'm stuck with a 2Khz 24dB crossover, which I like more that the 12dB somehow.
I'll just leave it that way for a while and concentrate on room acoustics.
Sunday a friend a friend who is also into hifi will visit me, maybe he can give
me some helpful feedback too.
Thank you Sathim, very nice looking and measuring speakers and room!
New speakers have remarkable difference in low bass and treble dispersion. How do you feel about treble, is soundstage, imaging etc. subjective qualities different? Which do you prefer?
Do you watch movies, have you thought about subwoofers? Loudspeaker stands could easily be replaced with poles having two or 4 opposing 8" subwoofers. Just buy another minidsp and change routing. Obviously you use analog input for minidsp?
New speakers have remarkable difference in low bass and treble dispersion. How do you feel about treble, is soundstage, imaging etc. subjective qualities different? Which do you prefer?
Do you watch movies, have you thought about subwoofers? Loudspeaker stands could easily be replaced with poles having two or 4 opposing 8" subwoofers. Just buy another minidsp and change routing. Obviously you use analog input for minidsp?