I am looking to build out a complete soundsystem. Right now I built 2 tapped horns as subs and plan to build a second pair. They run from 27Hz to 200Hz but would like to crossover around 150Hz or so.
I am going for the "wall of speakers" aesthetic and am hoping for some suggestions on what to build for the midbass/tops. Here are the current constraints: Total sub depth is 30" but they have angles corners, depth at the top is roughly 25.75". A pair of the subs side by side, rubber feet to rubber feet is 46.5" wide. The subs are 45" tall. The pair of the subs will hit 130dB on the lower passbad continuously, 135/140 dB on the upper passbad. It is also worth mentioning that the pair of subwoofers have a rough maximum continuous power of 1000W per pair. It would be nice if the midbass bins to have a similar power rating.
What I kinda had in mind was to have some sort of W-bin type enclosure for the midbass and have a constant directivity horn with a horn driver crossed over at roughly 400Hz from the midbass horn. That is just a rough idea and I'm not sure if a W-bin would be the right type of enclosure.
Any suggestions/thoughts? In order of priority the characteristics of the system go: Efficiency/Sensitivity, Aesthetics, Fidelity, Size (somewhat portable). Rough budget would be 3-4k USD.
I am going for the "wall of speakers" aesthetic and am hoping for some suggestions on what to build for the midbass/tops. Here are the current constraints: Total sub depth is 30" but they have angles corners, depth at the top is roughly 25.75". A pair of the subs side by side, rubber feet to rubber feet is 46.5" wide. The subs are 45" tall. The pair of the subs will hit 130dB on the lower passbad continuously, 135/140 dB on the upper passbad. It is also worth mentioning that the pair of subwoofers have a rough maximum continuous power of 1000W per pair. It would be nice if the midbass bins to have a similar power rating.
What I kinda had in mind was to have some sort of W-bin type enclosure for the midbass and have a constant directivity horn with a horn driver crossed over at roughly 400Hz from the midbass horn. That is just a rough idea and I'm not sure if a W-bin would be the right type of enclosure.
Any suggestions/thoughts? In order of priority the characteristics of the system go: Efficiency/Sensitivity, Aesthetics, Fidelity, Size (somewhat portable). Rough budget would be 3-4k USD.
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Do the subs sound well (to the ear) up to 150 Hz in a complete sound system? It's fairly high for most tapped horns to crossover at, especially when going that low. Also what music genres do you play?
They will get their first run with a complete sound system on NYE, I'll report back then. Frequency response was flat all the way up to 200Hz, they sounded a little boomy with music (on the kicks) but that might be because their was no mids/tops playing with them to flesh out the kick drum.
Found a Paraflex 2x8 midtop design so I am actually angling towards that for now (2 cabinets on each side for horizontal coverage), according to the cutsheet it plays down to 90Hz and up to 1500Hz. Probably going to pair that with an Eminence 2" compression driver and a 60x40 horn, 2 on each side (or should I go with a linearay waveguide?). Not sure where I will cross the mids with the subs/tops
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I would wait on that NYE run, for me a sub sounding boomy on kicks is the rule rather then the exception. Once you know how high you can cross them you can look for a good midtop, although as rule of thumb, 90 Hz is a pretty safe bet. I've not seen measurements for the Paraflex but 4 octaves is a lot, I would expect it not being comfortable going either that high or that low irl.
A linearay waveguide is designed for hanging multiple units on top of each other, as you're not going to do that probably, a single 1.4" - 2" per side (60 x 40) makes most sense.
A linearay waveguide is designed for hanging multiple units on top of each other, as you're not going to do that probably, a single 1.4" - 2" per side (60 x 40) makes most sense.
Is this for event sound or home theater?
I know some HT guys like to set their subs' LPF fairly high, for some reason. It probably has to do with maintaining phase coherency for an extra octave. (I'm guessing)
But for live sound, in my somewhat limited personal experience (having maybe ten systems over 45 years, and setting up small rigs for a lot of local bands) I've never heard a sub that sounded best with a LPF higher than 80 Hz. Even going to 120 Hz causes a noticeable lack of punch.
Granted, it might be possible to negate that with careful placement, some timing delay, or other phase-tweaks. I don't know as I never knew about that stuff back in the day. (except for phase-flipping.) but I suspect the main problem is IM distortion. A driver pushing 40 Hz is moving back&forth a LOT. That's going to screw with the waveforms at 100 Hz +, no matter what other tricks you use.
Just my opinion, but very strongly held.
Of course, modern dsp capabilities have opened up a world of correction options, so who knows what might be possible. -But that's going to be very high end stuff, and not likely DIY-friendly.
I know some HT guys like to set their subs' LPF fairly high, for some reason. It probably has to do with maintaining phase coherency for an extra octave. (I'm guessing)
But for live sound, in my somewhat limited personal experience (having maybe ten systems over 45 years, and setting up small rigs for a lot of local bands) I've never heard a sub that sounded best with a LPF higher than 80 Hz. Even going to 120 Hz causes a noticeable lack of punch.
Granted, it might be possible to negate that with careful placement, some timing delay, or other phase-tweaks. I don't know as I never knew about that stuff back in the day. (except for phase-flipping.) but I suspect the main problem is IM distortion. A driver pushing 40 Hz is moving back&forth a LOT. That's going to screw with the waveforms at 100 Hz +, no matter what other tricks you use.
Just my opinion, but very strongly held.
Of course, modern dsp capabilities have opened up a world of correction options, so who knows what might be possible. -But that's going to be very high end stuff, and not likely DIY-friendly.
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Hmmm the designer of the subwoofer does strike me more of a HT guy, he also did mention something about "localization" being a problem above 150Hz so maybe that is what your referring to? This is for live sound
I would probably cross the paraflex with the high frequency horns around 1000Hz or so, hopefully the paraflex will play down to 90Hz as advertised.
Why only 1 60x40 horn per side? I understand why this would be the case indoors, but wouldn't it make more sense to have more horizontal coverage outdoors?
DSP wise I'll probably go with a driverack venu360 unless there is a convincing argument not to.
EDIT: For those interested this is the supposed, measured frequency response of the Paraflex midtops. Other than the reasons stated above, is there any other reason why I should be skeptical of these measurement's? Or are there any glaring issues with the response itself?
I would probably cross the paraflex with the high frequency horns around 1000Hz or so, hopefully the paraflex will play down to 90Hz as advertised.
Why only 1 60x40 horn per side? I understand why this would be the case indoors, but wouldn't it make more sense to have more horizontal coverage outdoors?
DSP wise I'll probably go with a driverack venu360 unless there is a convincing argument not to.
EDIT: For those interested this is the supposed, measured frequency response of the Paraflex midtops. Other than the reasons stated above, is there any other reason why I should be skeptical of these measurement's? Or are there any glaring issues with the response itself?
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Looks pretty good to be honest, a bit of EQ sure but nothing a dsp can't handle. I do wonder if this is 2,0 pi or 4,0 pi though, 2,0 pi will help the low end a bunch but you're going to use it nearer 4,0 pi.
Like your subs, a frequency response doesn't tell everything about 'the sound'. As those can be flat to 200 Hz and still honk doing the lower kick. There's a bunch of graphs that are going to be helpful. The frequency response is like a first date going well but you're talking about a long term relationship 😉 At this point it takes a leap of faith.
Unless you're outside means you're suddenly going for a very wide setup, not really.
Like your subs, a frequency response doesn't tell everything about 'the sound'. As those can be flat to 200 Hz and still honk doing the lower kick. There's a bunch of graphs that are going to be helpful. The frequency response is like a first date going well but you're talking about a long term relationship 😉 At this point it takes a leap of faith.
This could be a realllly long answer.
Unless you're outside means you're suddenly going for a very wide setup, not really.