I'm current using an APT Holman preamp, which I like. But it's the time of the year to do some window shopping. Budget is under $1000, much less like $500 is more reasonable.
I may end up keeping the Apt and doing some mods to it, please dont be offernded if i dont actually purchase anything - your thoughts on a replacement are appreciated.
DIY, used OK of course. But if DIY, I'd need to be able to purchase a good looking chassis since my mechanical skills are near zero.
Nice to have but NOT necesary:
Tubes - never really had a tube amp, wouldn't mind trying
Remote volume
quality phono stage
tape loops
many inputs (I only need maybe 3, depends if it has built in phono)
I may end up keeping the Apt and doing some mods to it, please dont be offernded if i dont actually purchase anything - your thoughts on a replacement are appreciated.
DIY, used OK of course. But if DIY, I'd need to be able to purchase a good looking chassis since my mechanical skills are near zero.
Nice to have but NOT necesary:
Tubes - never really had a tube amp, wouldn't mind trying
Remote volume
quality phono stage
tape loops
many inputs (I only need maybe 3, depends if it has built in phono)
Remote, tube, phono and sub $1k?
That's a very tall order. It absolutely isn't happening for $500 unless you are getting Aliexpress stuff with unknown provenance and QC from China.
The Schiit Freya + (with tubes) just squeaks under the price, but you'll need a phonostage. (Their $149 phonostage "Mani" is excellent) Can wholeheartedly recommend, Schiit products are fantastic, everything I've had from them is better than advertised.
Do you actually use the tape loop? Those are becoming extremely rare.
That's a very tall order. It absolutely isn't happening for $500 unless you are getting Aliexpress stuff with unknown provenance and QC from China.
The Schiit Freya + (with tubes) just squeaks under the price, but you'll need a phonostage. (Their $149 phonostage "Mani" is excellent) Can wholeheartedly recommend, Schiit products are fantastic, everything I've had from them is better than advertised.
Do you actually use the tape loop? Those are becoming extremely rare.
hi, the remote, tube, etc. we're listed as nice to have but not necessary.
I owned a schiit saga briefly but didn't like to volume controll. I have a separate phono amp and MC step up I can use (a Hagerman bugle 2 and lundahl step up)
I owned a schiit saga briefly but didn't like to volume controll. I have a separate phono amp and MC step up I can use (a Hagerman bugle 2 and lundahl step up)
I don't have my Sony VFET amp built yet, so this is speaking off the cuff, but I'm surprised you'd want the amount of color in your audio chain that a tube preamp would likely add to a VFET amp. Unless your speakers are unduly harsh/analytical, this would seem over the top. Ditto with a Korg NuTube B1 preamp.
I'd suggest building a PASS Labs B1 buffer from the board + active kit that's for sale on the website. It's probably ~$200 for the parts or less. The B1 buffer is flat and smooth, and IMO a reference item. If you want a little more midrange warmth, buy an ACP+ kit from the store and use that as a preamp. If you need a chassis for the B1 buffer, you can buy a B1 Korg chassis for it from the store for $130+ shipping. You'll need to drill four more holes for the board in the base plate to mount it. Shown below is my B1 buffer in a repurposed B1 Korg chassis.
I'd suggest building a PASS Labs B1 buffer from the board + active kit that's for sale on the website. It's probably ~$200 for the parts or less. The B1 buffer is flat and smooth, and IMO a reference item. If you want a little more midrange warmth, buy an ACP+ kit from the store and use that as a preamp. If you need a chassis for the B1 buffer, you can buy a B1 Korg chassis for it from the store for $130+ shipping. You'll need to drill four more holes for the board in the base plate to mount it. Shown below is my B1 buffer in a repurposed B1 Korg chassis.
Attachments
I use a Schiit Sys for a preamp. Two source selector switch and a potentiometer in a nice little chassis. Very simple and passive.
$50 and works great. But.... if you need gain then maybe look at a Whammy or BA-3 gain stage. I'm building a a BA-3 right now.
Not sure if it's necessary but I'm building it. And I second @6L6 's comments on the Schiit Mani. I also have one and it is great!
$50 and works great. But.... if you need gain then maybe look at a Whammy or BA-3 gain stage. I'm building a a BA-3 right now.
Not sure if it's necessary but I'm building it. And I second @6L6 's comments on the Schiit Mani. I also have one and it is great!
My general recommendation for a preamp in front of the VFET lottery amp is a simple, clean design with a few dB of gain. The VFET amp itself has a delightful degree of H2/H3, as intended by the designer. Best to work with that on its own. Then try a couple of the alternate front ends (that go inside the amp). Maybe build an external linear PSU, dual-mono. Prepare to listen and be amazed.
My preamp is a Naim NAC82 with a custom external PSU. Far outside the price range mentioned above, but it gets out of the way of whichever power amp I have on deck.
My preamp is a Naim NAC82 with a custom external PSU. Far outside the price range mentioned above, but it gets out of the way of whichever power amp I have on deck.
Yeah, the PSU that I built for the preamp is capable of supplying a power amp, easily. The NAC82 probably just needs a set of heavier output transistors to drive speakers.
Well, I would start by scratching the integrated phono stage. It would be good to have it seperate. The Schiit that 6L6 recommended is a good phono stage. I have one of those.
Tape loops and amount of inputs are going to be your job.
If you choose to go DIY, here are some thoughts on some of the preamps that are out there. Note that these are just my impressions.
B1 Korg Nutube:
-Tube pre designed by Nelson Pass
-Can change the distortion charactoristics with bias adj.
-Clean with surgar on top
-Comes in a well designed kit for $300 from the DIYaudio store
BA2018
-Very detailed with great imaging
-SMDs so need to be decent with soldering gun
-Designed by Wayne Colburn of Pass Lavs (Don't let his modest demeanor fool you. He is the Big Dog when it comes to preamps)
-you will need case, power supply volume knob and other parts. (glassware and Antek is easy)
-Only adjustment is DC offset
-Decent bass and decent gain
BA-3
-Very detailed, dynamic and impressive bass (maybe too much throttle for the Vfet?)
-Few parts
-Bias adjustment is trickier than first two preamps
-A chameleon when it comes to distortion charactoristics. You can choose what you want really but it is tricky
-Will need power supply, volume knob case etc.
B1 Buffer
-Simple
-Can purchase board from PassDIY (kind of cool to get it from the masters hands)
-No gain. You will have to be heavy on the throttle to go 55 so check the gain on your VFET amp
-A great pre. A lot of people Prefer the B1 Korg. Some prefer the B1.
I believe Mr Pass says that if you pull the Harmonic distortion trick twice, sometimes it can flop. I think what you are looking to do is what he is talking about. I do think that the B1 Korg and the Schiit Mani would still be a great combo. You can null out a lot of the distortion, change the phase of it, and increase or lower it with a single trim pot per channel. There are also some fairly cheap upgrades that you can do to it. Like films instead of the 10uf caps, SMPS filter that Mark designed (only $10 for the kit).
I reaplced the 10uf caps with wima's and it cost me like $12 if that. It was a fun project and I was able to A/B all of that good stuff.
You can maybe build a seperate box to do the input tape loop work that you desire. Khozmo makes some nice attenuators. I believe they make motorized attenuators as well. You could eventually use the B1 Korg as a linestage and have the remote attenuator be in a seperate chassis with all of the input tape loop stuff. Then you could use it for other preamp projects if you want.
If you like the idea of one of these preamps, just shout and I am sure people here will jump in and give you some insight. Regarding the older preamps you mentioned, they are nice but I do think that alot of these new DIY designs would outcompete them.
Tape loops and amount of inputs are going to be your job.
If you choose to go DIY, here are some thoughts on some of the preamps that are out there. Note that these are just my impressions.
B1 Korg Nutube:
-Tube pre designed by Nelson Pass
-Can change the distortion charactoristics with bias adj.
-Clean with surgar on top
-Comes in a well designed kit for $300 from the DIYaudio store
BA2018
-Very detailed with great imaging
-SMDs so need to be decent with soldering gun
-Designed by Wayne Colburn of Pass Lavs (Don't let his modest demeanor fool you. He is the Big Dog when it comes to preamps)
-you will need case, power supply volume knob and other parts. (glassware and Antek is easy)
-Only adjustment is DC offset
-Decent bass and decent gain
BA-3
-Very detailed, dynamic and impressive bass (maybe too much throttle for the Vfet?)
-Few parts
-Bias adjustment is trickier than first two preamps
-A chameleon when it comes to distortion charactoristics. You can choose what you want really but it is tricky
-Will need power supply, volume knob case etc.
B1 Buffer
-Simple
-Can purchase board from PassDIY (kind of cool to get it from the masters hands)
-No gain. You will have to be heavy on the throttle to go 55 so check the gain on your VFET amp
-A great pre. A lot of people Prefer the B1 Korg. Some prefer the B1.
I believe Mr Pass says that if you pull the Harmonic distortion trick twice, sometimes it can flop. I think what you are looking to do is what he is talking about. I do think that the B1 Korg and the Schiit Mani would still be a great combo. You can null out a lot of the distortion, change the phase of it, and increase or lower it with a single trim pot per channel. There are also some fairly cheap upgrades that you can do to it. Like films instead of the 10uf caps, SMPS filter that Mark designed (only $10 for the kit).
I reaplced the 10uf caps with wima's and it cost me like $12 if that. It was a fun project and I was able to A/B all of that good stuff.
You can maybe build a seperate box to do the input tape loop work that you desire. Khozmo makes some nice attenuators. I believe they make motorized attenuators as well. You could eventually use the B1 Korg as a linestage and have the remote attenuator be in a seperate chassis with all of the input tape loop stuff. Then you could use it for other preamp projects if you want.
If you like the idea of one of these preamps, just shout and I am sure people here will jump in and give you some insight. Regarding the older preamps you mentioned, they are nice but I do think that alot of these new DIY designs would outcompete them.
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I picked up a used wyred 4 sound stp-se preamp.
https://wyred4sound.com/collections/pre-amps/products/stp-se?variant=28628752662602
https://wyred4sound.com/collections/pre-amps/products/stp-se?variant=28628752662602
I've been listening to my Sony VFET amp pretty exclusively with a Schiit Freya Noval tube preamp. The Freya N uses four of the 6N1P dual triode tubes, and can be used as a passive preamp, a buffered preamp, or with tube gain. The VFET amp sounds wonderful with both the buffer and with tube gain. I wasn't expecting the latter TBH.
Thanks! the wyred for sound preamp volume control works with 4 banks of relays in full balanced. but if I understand the literature, the first few steps are completely passive, the gain (solid state) kicks in on higher steps.
Let's not forget lottery VFET amp has quite a lot of its own distortion, so pairing it with pre which brings even more distortion may be too much.
Like korg nutube and vfet...
Like korg nutube and vfet...
now dealing with myths
good amp is good amp, from whatever Drek it is made
and last thing spoiled human brain is searching for is - micro-dynamic linearity
just another mumbojumbo invented for shameless propaganda then embraced and multiplied on FiFi forums
ok, now seriously - with good amp, one can't observe just one of all necessary elements of performance
good amp is good amp, from whatever Drek it is made
and last thing spoiled human brain is searching for is - micro-dynamic linearity
just another mumbojumbo invented for shameless propaganda then embraced and multiplied on FiFi forums
ok, now seriously - with good amp, one can't observe just one of all necessary elements of performance
You will not go wrong with Wayne's 2018 linestage. This amp has a very tube like sound with just the right amount of 2nd harmonics. Using a tube pre is just too much of a good thing for me. I prefer using a SS linestage with a tube amplifier or a SE SS amplifier. Just my 2ct's.
All the pre mentioned before are valid and the assesment of sound characteristics by Mikerodrig27 is spot on.
I would add that even some headphone amplifiers can be used as pre, if not too much gain is required. One should use higher efficiency speakers, then choices are much wider.
I have used ACP+ and Whammy with vfet amp, in both cases excellent sound. There is obviously difference in sound, but it comes to personal prefference. I like both of these headphone amps and are rather happy with both. Both can satisfy as pre as well.
So lets include these as an option.
Side note, i had b1 buffer, and sold it. I like some meat on them bones. I built few ba3fa, and fould them too sharp and solidstaty for my taste. But others may like this pre. Wayne's pre is nice and clean.
I invested lots of time in srpp tube pre investigation, and ended up with great sounding tube pre (clean) with vfet. Frankly, there is too many options and too little time.
I would add that even some headphone amplifiers can be used as pre, if not too much gain is required. One should use higher efficiency speakers, then choices are much wider.
I have used ACP+ and Whammy with vfet amp, in both cases excellent sound. There is obviously difference in sound, but it comes to personal prefference. I like both of these headphone amps and are rather happy with both. Both can satisfy as pre as well.
So lets include these as an option.
Side note, i had b1 buffer, and sold it. I like some meat on them bones. I built few ba3fa, and fould them too sharp and solidstaty for my taste. But others may like this pre. Wayne's pre is nice and clean.
I invested lots of time in srpp tube pre investigation, and ended up with great sounding tube pre (clean) with vfet. Frankly, there is too many options and too little time.
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