Well MTM minus the T 😉
for you speaker building guru's I'm curious to know, does it work OK to use two full range drivers per cabinet to raise the sensitivity?
You have to do sim's, and modify the cabinet or can use the same cabinet design for the given driver?
Spacing between the drivers is critical?... I assume adds another complexity to figure out or experimented with?
What about if the drivers have a whizzer cone, does it matter, and can it still work?
Dave, has anyone tried this with the Frugel horn or other cabs?
a quick search found this about dual drivers - I will edit this post as I find more ...
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/Dual-Driver-Wiring.pdf
below I added a speaker designed by Omega sold by Decware - so I guess it works.
for you speaker building guru's I'm curious to know, does it work OK to use two full range drivers per cabinet to raise the sensitivity?
You have to do sim's, and modify the cabinet or can use the same cabinet design for the given driver?
Spacing between the drivers is critical?... I assume adds another complexity to figure out or experimented with?
What about if the drivers have a whizzer cone, does it matter, and can it still work?
Dave, has anyone tried this with the Frugel horn or other cabs?
a quick search found this about dual drivers - I will edit this post as I find more ...
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/Dual-Driver-Wiring.pdf
below I added a speaker designed by Omega sold by Decware - so I guess it works.
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2 FRs playing together will start to comb at frequencies above the quarter wavelength of the centre-to-centre spacing. So the closer the better.
Bear in mind, that it looks a lot worse than it sounds (ref Toole).
The further you are away the less of an issuse. Small details will be buried in the time differences as frequency goes up.
It is a compromise. Only you can decide which is more important, 6dB more sensitivity or the sonics.
You see a few 4x small driver (championed by Jordan), and people live with line arrays which are the ultimate example of large amounts of combing.
dave
Bear in mind, that it looks a lot worse than it sounds (ref Toole).
The further you are away the less of an issuse. Small details will be buried in the time differences as frequency goes up.
It is a compromise. Only you can decide which is more important, 6dB more sensitivity or the sonics.
You see a few 4x small driver (championed by Jordan), and people live with line arrays which are the ultimate example of large amounts of combing.
dave
Even if the source is true line source like planar from top to bottom? Like dali or apogee or b&g?
Are you saying maggies or big electrostats suffer large amounts of combing?
Did you suffer?
I think it's done mostly as a cost based compromise as very high sensitivity drivers often cost a lot more.
https://omegaloudspeakers.com/products/super-3-high-output-monitor
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The same math applies the centre-to-centre approaches 0 in the limit. So they minimize that parameter and the steps turn into a continuity,
But the sound coming from the top of the lime still takes longer to reach your ear than teh bits coming from straight in front of you.
dave
Have you even read the description few lines below the picture?
200Hz crossover...need I say more? I do not want to repeat myself. Clearly you have not read my reply to your first post. Bye.
200Hz crossover...need I say more? I do not want to repeat myself. Clearly you have not read my reply to your first post. Bye.
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No I didn't see it till now, thanks for pointing it out.
Regarding your first reply, you didn't give enough info for me to understand what you were talking about.
Now I understand thanks. 😏 👍
So that Omega speaker is using just a low-pass crossover on one of two identical drivers?
I never saw this kind of design before, interesting.
btw, @adason I saw your Betsy WOW speaker. Was that using the Betsy or Betsy-K driver?
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hmmm....................
dispersion and distance..................
10" that goes all the way up, are there any ?
Klipsch uses 2 x 10" in the rf7 series, but I think they cross past 2khz.
Using a full range 8" with whizzer, I feel dispersion is only good enough for 1 person at 7' and 2 people shoulder to shoulder at 12'.
So I think, you can pull off a line array of 8" drivers, given what I've said above.
But I have not tried.
I tried a 2 small drivers (under over, think derringer pistol, 4" tang bands with 5" frame), but vertical listening spot was extremely small.
I preferred using both wired in parallel, wide open with eq, than trying to use 1 as baffle step. I assume it was due to reduction in distortion.
However, I used 4 x tg9 (3") drivers in a "mini array" that had very good results, but even at 10', your ear had to be between the top and bottom driver. I think the frames were 83mm. Definitely a larger vertical sweet spot than the 2 x 4" drivers.
People like the dual 25 x tc9 arrays (with massive eq applied), even then, I would want to run separate bass support.
dispersion and distance..................
10" that goes all the way up, are there any ?
Klipsch uses 2 x 10" in the rf7 series, but I think they cross past 2khz.
Using a full range 8" with whizzer, I feel dispersion is only good enough for 1 person at 7' and 2 people shoulder to shoulder at 12'.
So I think, you can pull off a line array of 8" drivers, given what I've said above.
But I have not tried.
I tried a 2 small drivers (under over, think derringer pistol, 4" tang bands with 5" frame), but vertical listening spot was extremely small.
I preferred using both wired in parallel, wide open with eq, than trying to use 1 as baffle step. I assume it was due to reduction in distortion.
However, I used 4 x tg9 (3") drivers in a "mini array" that had very good results, but even at 10', your ear had to be between the top and bottom driver. I think the frames were 83mm. Definitely a larger vertical sweet spot than the 2 x 4" drivers.
People like the dual 25 x tc9 arrays (with massive eq applied), even then, I would want to run separate bass support.
There are 3 ways to do it. With FRs and a decent box design i like series wiring with a shunt cap.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/Dual-Driver-Wiring.pdf
dave
here was an omega dual 8" for sale (2020) ............
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=171432.0
instagram from omega (2021) ..............
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKHQwc5Mx-8/
"Stop scrolling and check out these sweet monitors now on sale at the Omega Store. Feast your eyes on the Vintage 8 High Output Monitors finished in curly fumed oak. This absolutely stunning pair features two of our very own 8 inch full range drivers in our high output configuration. What does that mean? It's a no compromise design by which you enjoy all the accuracy and holographic midrange of a full range driver with an identical (sans the whizzer) driver cutoff at 200hz for added bass and dynamics. The bottom-ported design reinforces low end even further for a speaker that's perfect for whatever music you throw at it. It's all you could ever want. Plus, these speakers deliver very high efficiency so you can make them sing with only a few watts. The cabinet for these monitors was modeled after classic speakers like the JBL L100 and fits perfectly in these Deer Creak Audio stands (included). Did we mention they're hand made right here in the USA? We're blowing them out this weekend at a low introductory price. Don't miss your chance on these! Order today! Link in the bio."
When the 12" fane 250tc was around, I contemplated a 4 driver line array...............
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=171432.0
instagram from omega (2021) ..............
https://www.instagram.com/p/CKHQwc5Mx-8/
"Stop scrolling and check out these sweet monitors now on sale at the Omega Store. Feast your eyes on the Vintage 8 High Output Monitors finished in curly fumed oak. This absolutely stunning pair features two of our very own 8 inch full range drivers in our high output configuration. What does that mean? It's a no compromise design by which you enjoy all the accuracy and holographic midrange of a full range driver with an identical (sans the whizzer) driver cutoff at 200hz for added bass and dynamics. The bottom-ported design reinforces low end even further for a speaker that's perfect for whatever music you throw at it. It's all you could ever want. Plus, these speakers deliver very high efficiency so you can make them sing with only a few watts. The cabinet for these monitors was modeled after classic speakers like the JBL L100 and fits perfectly in these Deer Creak Audio stands (included). Did we mention they're hand made right here in the USA? We're blowing them out this weekend at a low introductory price. Don't miss your chance on these! Order today! Link in the bio."
When the 12" fane 250tc was around, I contemplated a 4 driver line array...............
I do this with two pairs of the same vintage alnico ovals, the "BSC" facing sideways and LPF'ed. Actually three pairs but the low bass boost didn't pan out. Twice 1.5-way would be what??
So, even without LPF the second FR driver can be toed-in differently to attenuate HF and combing.
Usually when I "stack" two complementary speakers the second one has less extended HF.
So, even without LPF the second FR driver can be toed-in differently to attenuate HF and combing.
Usually when I "stack" two complementary speakers the second one has less extended HF.