Hello all, I went into my local electronics shop to look for a scope for working with audio analog circuits
I was recommended this with the advice that this unit can do frequency response
https://www.jaycar.com.au/20mhz-usb-oscilloscope/p/QC1929
https://www.jaycar.com.au/medias/sys_master/images/images/9704167899166/QC1929-manualMain.pdf
Then I came across this
http://hantek.com/products/detail/31
Are they the same unit?
Can I use the Hantek 6022BE for analog audio circuits?
Also
What are the crowd favourites when it comes to speaker parameters? Can unknown speakers be worked on to generate the parameters somehow? What's needed for measuring built speaker response and such?
Is there one device that I can use for both circuits and speakers?
Thanks and regards
Randy
I was recommended this with the advice that this unit can do frequency response
https://www.jaycar.com.au/20mhz-usb-oscilloscope/p/QC1929
https://www.jaycar.com.au/medias/sys_master/images/images/9704167899166/QC1929-manualMain.pdf
Then I came across this
http://hantek.com/products/detail/31
Are they the same unit?
Can I use the Hantek 6022BE for analog audio circuits?
Also
What are the crowd favourites when it comes to speaker parameters? Can unknown speakers be worked on to generate the parameters somehow? What's needed for measuring built speaker response and such?
Is there one device that I can use for both circuits and speakers?
Thanks and regards
Randy
That's 48MS/s so 1/2 that for the maximum frequency 24MHz max. Additionally it's considered good practice to have enough sample speed to have a 5-10 samples for each required sample point (the usual is to average).
I couldn't see if the Hantek triggers in software or in the hardware. This plays a great point in digital scopes for triggering on each wave form. Lastly I suspect that the system doesn't have waveform memory so that would the size of the computer memory. Lastly the application you're using (the hantek software) should then provide things like FFT and possibly Bode plots.
For issues with amp oscillations you may find this isn't fast enough and may have to resort to other methods to locate the issues.
There's also no indication of the maximum voltage on the front end that can be applied. Also this only supports DC coupling. So it's not great for audio use with high voltages or high DC offsets. For example the Siglent SDS1104X handles 400V peak if this can only handle 5 volts (I note there's a logic analyser BL variant which looks identical) then for speakers posts on amps etc this will not be good enough. If you're using a microphone for speaker analysis then check the gain fits for the purpose.
In short I think they work for 3.3 and 5V electronics boards for kids/beginners but you will quickly find it limiting at 48MHz if you start looking at digital clocked circuits or bode plotting the frequency of an amp - for safety don't even try with higher voltages as there's no isolation.
I couldn't see if the Hantek triggers in software or in the hardware. This plays a great point in digital scopes for triggering on each wave form. Lastly I suspect that the system doesn't have waveform memory so that would the size of the computer memory. Lastly the application you're using (the hantek software) should then provide things like FFT and possibly Bode plots.
For issues with amp oscillations you may find this isn't fast enough and may have to resort to other methods to locate the issues.
There's also no indication of the maximum voltage on the front end that can be applied. Also this only supports DC coupling. So it's not great for audio use with high voltages or high DC offsets. For example the Siglent SDS1104X handles 400V peak if this can only handle 5 volts (I note there's a logic analyser BL variant which looks identical) then for speakers posts on amps etc this will not be good enough. If you're using a microphone for speaker analysis then check the gain fits for the purpose.
In short I think they work for 3.3 and 5V electronics boards for kids/beginners but you will quickly find it limiting at 48MHz if you start looking at digital clocked circuits or bode plotting the frequency of an amp - for safety don't even try with higher voltages as there's no isolation.
Before you buy anything, you need to decide of course what you want to measure and on what kinds of circuits. If you are dealing with the high voltages that usually go along with tube circuits, then USB scopes are probably a poor choice, for example.
Anyway, I think scopes like the one you posted have their place, but the price is very high for what it is. If it is indeed the Hantek, there is a long thread on eevblog about that unit that you can browse to learn about the ins and outs. The spec sheet does offer some insights; besides the ones nickKUK mentioned, the minimum sensitivity is 20 mV/div, and the only triggering is edge. This scope only makes sense if you have very little money and you can find it at a much lower price than shown in the link you provided. For less money than the product you linked, you should be able to find better options.
One example is the Owon vds1022 or vds1022i; the i version has usb isolation, which protects your computer and allows the scope to survive 400V peak-to-peak at the input. These have AC and DC coupling, 25 MHz bandwidth, dual 100 MSample/s converters (one for each channel), 5 mV/div sensitivity, 5 kSample memory per channel, and more triggering options. Word on the street is that they work much better than the Hantek, but I have not personally used either one. Again, there is a long eevblog thread on this scope, with comparisons to the Hantek.
Both the Hantek and the Owon can do FFTs, although I think in both cases they are short. This allows you to see the signals in the frequency domain, which can be very helpful at times. However, since none of these units have built-in signal generators they do not come with the capability to do Bode plots (frequency response analysis), if that is what you are interested in.
If you are looking at new USB-based scopes, another one in this price range is the Picoscope 2204a, which I have owned for a number of years. The specs are minimal:
10 MHz analog bandwidth (mine measures about 25 MHz at -3 dB, though)
100 MSample/s sampling with one channel operational, only 50 MSample/s each with both channels operating
10 mV/div minimum sensitivity
AC and DC coupling
8 kSample shared memory
Lots of fancy triggering options
built-in 100 kHz function generator
No USB isolation and max input is +/- 20V at the scope (eg with x1 probes)
So as a scope it is not the most impressive looking, but I have used mine for audio circuits for a number of years and it works well. It will do fine catching instabilities up to 30 MHz or so, but of course will not see any craziness at in the 100+ MHz regime (not sure how often that higher frequency stuff matters, but sometimes it does). Where it shines is the fact that it has a built-in 100 kHz signal generator, and you can download a free app to do Bode plots so can directly measure the frequency response of filters and such. It also has by far the most developed software compared to the Hantek and Owon. The software includes FFT, digital filtering (a 100 kHz low-pass filter eliminates a lot of noise when looking at audio circuits), lots of triggering options, serial decoding, etc., and is frequently updated. When sampling at <= 1 Msample/s, you also can stream indefinitely, and the Picoscope6 software has a 100 MSample buffer built-in. So for audio frequencies you effectively have very deep memory, which I have occasionally found useful.
I think it is clear that the Owon has better scope hardware and the isolation option, but the Picoscope has the function generator, Bode plots and the better software. Different folks will prefer one or the other for good reasons. But I think both are a better choice than the Hantek, especially given the high prices for the unit you are looking at. I don't know the prices in Australia, but a quick google search of .au sites showed the Owon vds1022i and the Pico 2204a sell below the price of that Hantek you posted. You should be able to find youtube reviews of all of these devices and see them in action. And of course, you might be better off with something else entirely, depending on your actual use cases and your budget.
good luck,
jason
Anyway, I think scopes like the one you posted have their place, but the price is very high for what it is. If it is indeed the Hantek, there is a long thread on eevblog about that unit that you can browse to learn about the ins and outs. The spec sheet does offer some insights; besides the ones nickKUK mentioned, the minimum sensitivity is 20 mV/div, and the only triggering is edge. This scope only makes sense if you have very little money and you can find it at a much lower price than shown in the link you provided. For less money than the product you linked, you should be able to find better options.
One example is the Owon vds1022 or vds1022i; the i version has usb isolation, which protects your computer and allows the scope to survive 400V peak-to-peak at the input. These have AC and DC coupling, 25 MHz bandwidth, dual 100 MSample/s converters (one for each channel), 5 mV/div sensitivity, 5 kSample memory per channel, and more triggering options. Word on the street is that they work much better than the Hantek, but I have not personally used either one. Again, there is a long eevblog thread on this scope, with comparisons to the Hantek.
Both the Hantek and the Owon can do FFTs, although I think in both cases they are short. This allows you to see the signals in the frequency domain, which can be very helpful at times. However, since none of these units have built-in signal generators they do not come with the capability to do Bode plots (frequency response analysis), if that is what you are interested in.
If you are looking at new USB-based scopes, another one in this price range is the Picoscope 2204a, which I have owned for a number of years. The specs are minimal:
10 MHz analog bandwidth (mine measures about 25 MHz at -3 dB, though)
100 MSample/s sampling with one channel operational, only 50 MSample/s each with both channels operating
10 mV/div minimum sensitivity
AC and DC coupling
8 kSample shared memory
Lots of fancy triggering options
built-in 100 kHz function generator
No USB isolation and max input is +/- 20V at the scope (eg with x1 probes)
So as a scope it is not the most impressive looking, but I have used mine for audio circuits for a number of years and it works well. It will do fine catching instabilities up to 30 MHz or so, but of course will not see any craziness at in the 100+ MHz regime (not sure how often that higher frequency stuff matters, but sometimes it does). Where it shines is the fact that it has a built-in 100 kHz signal generator, and you can download a free app to do Bode plots so can directly measure the frequency response of filters and such. It also has by far the most developed software compared to the Hantek and Owon. The software includes FFT, digital filtering (a 100 kHz low-pass filter eliminates a lot of noise when looking at audio circuits), lots of triggering options, serial decoding, etc., and is frequently updated. When sampling at <= 1 Msample/s, you also can stream indefinitely, and the Picoscope6 software has a 100 MSample buffer built-in. So for audio frequencies you effectively have very deep memory, which I have occasionally found useful.
I think it is clear that the Owon has better scope hardware and the isolation option, but the Picoscope has the function generator, Bode plots and the better software. Different folks will prefer one or the other for good reasons. But I think both are a better choice than the Hantek, especially given the high prices for the unit you are looking at. I don't know the prices in Australia, but a quick google search of .au sites showed the Owon vds1022i and the Pico 2204a sell below the price of that Hantek you posted. You should be able to find youtube reviews of all of these devices and see them in action. And of course, you might be better off with something else entirely, depending on your actual use cases and your budget.
good luck,
jason
I have the Hantek. The probes that come with it are kind of junk, 10X probe couldn't show me a square wave, but the 1X setting worked, and a 100X probe I got of Amazon is working nicely.
What do you need to measure? If it's audio and you have an old crap laptop to use, it's a good value.
Here's the last thing I measured with it. It was an IXTP08N100D2 depletion MOSFET. 300V B+, 33k drain resistor, 600R source resistor. CH1 output from drain, 100nF -> 1M. CH2 input from DDS.
I paid 80$CAD for my Hantek.
There's also an open source software package available for it so you can use it in Linux or Android.
http://openhantek.org/
What do you need to measure? If it's audio and you have an old crap laptop to use, it's a good value.
Here's the last thing I measured with it. It was an IXTP08N100D2 depletion MOSFET. 300V B+, 33k drain resistor, 600R source resistor. CH1 output from drain, 100nF -> 1M. CH2 input from DDS.
I paid 80$CAD for my Hantek.
There's also an open source software package available for it so you can use it in Linux or Android.
http://openhantek.org/
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Important point about 100x there. If the software and be configured to 100x then you’re better off.
How do you find transients?
I usually pass a tone, hit "auto" and wait for the result. I'm not sure I measure transients TBH.
If there's a trace you'd like to see based on the MOSFET setup above, I'll do it and take a shot of it though.
EDIT: Here's a trace at 10kHz squarewave. I think the skew is due to the circuit being tested - the output of the build in generator makes a perfect square.
If there's a trace you'd like to see based on the MOSFET setup above, I'll do it and take a shot of it though.
EDIT: Here's a trace at 10kHz squarewave. I think the skew is due to the circuit being tested - the output of the build in generator makes a perfect square.
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Do NOT waste your time trying to install Hantek software on Linux as it does not work. The USB oscilloscope is NOT recognised. I wasted many hours trying to succeed, but it was all in vain. Some may claim on their Linux installations it worked, but you have to keep in mind, what they could do with it. I also found a webpage about reverse-engineering the driver which stated that Hantek change their driver architecture and mode of operation between releases. The scope's firmware is suspected to respond to information requests by a host computer only if a pre-defined pattern of requests is satisfied, otherwise, it stays silent without sending a single bit of data.
I succeeded to install and run Hantek's software for Windows under WINE, but without a driver, which makes the scope USELESS. Linux does NOT provide any means to use a Windows driver to interface with its kernel. The only exception is ndiswrapper which is designed to make wifi chips work, other than that, it does not recognise other hardware.
Works fine on my system dude... - Manjaro GNOME with openhantek installed from AUR. My biggest problem was trying to compile the code with only 4 gigs of ram... I had to add in 32 gigs of swap.
EDIT: It's now called openhantek6022 and compiles with 4gb. - openhantek from AUR installs version 0.2!
Here's a screenshot: The only thing missing is an "auto" button - you have to manually set the scale.
EDIT: It's now called openhantek6022 and compiles with 4gb. - openhantek from AUR installs version 0.2!
Here's a screenshot: The only thing missing is an "auto" button - you have to manually set the scale.
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Guys, thank you three very much for the information and education on this. I am very grateful. To be honest, this is my first scope and I don't really know what to aim for
I am working on:
Tube preamps, tube tone, tube amp
Jfet preamps and tone
Class D prebuilt boards
TPA3116D2 DIY
SMPS
DIY speakers and sub
Speakers without published Thiel and Small parameters
My budget is around AUD$200. Is there a device that I can use for all the purpose listed above? Or two devices in that budget? I can extend the budget if needed for two devices, as all it would mean is waiting a week or two longer to buy other things
Things that I want to measure and monitor:
Pre and power amp frequency response
Tone spectrum
Circuit changes to play with increasing and shaping harmonic distortion for instrument pre
Speaker frequency response and SPL
Also, would a second cheaper scope with built-in component tester be of any use alongside whatever you guys recommend? Or is a dedicated tester a better idea?
May I please ask you guys to scrutinise the following for a second unit and if it will be of any use alongside in the workshop and for portability in the car to check amp output?
Cheap scope and tester
Thanks for the help guys
Regards
Randy
I am working on:
Tube preamps, tube tone, tube amp
Jfet preamps and tone
Class D prebuilt boards
TPA3116D2 DIY
SMPS
DIY speakers and sub
Speakers without published Thiel and Small parameters
My budget is around AUD$200. Is there a device that I can use for all the purpose listed above? Or two devices in that budget? I can extend the budget if needed for two devices, as all it would mean is waiting a week or two longer to buy other things
Things that I want to measure and monitor:
Pre and power amp frequency response
Tone spectrum
Circuit changes to play with increasing and shaping harmonic distortion for instrument pre
Speaker frequency response and SPL
Also, would a second cheaper scope with built-in component tester be of any use alongside whatever you guys recommend? Or is a dedicated tester a better idea?
May I please ask you guys to scrutinise the following for a second unit and if it will be of any use alongside in the workshop and for portability in the car to check amp output?
Cheap scope and tester
Thanks for the help guys
Regards
Randy
So this is probably a usb bulk endpoint hence the need for a driver and no stand specidication. The older USB is a host driven protocol hence for compatibility they have to issue requests to get data and the packets on bulk are best-effort in priority. I’be commerially ported usb drivers for astro camera using cypress fx3 and they used bulk transfers to reduct the 54MB/image transfer speed for legacy. If this is the case, then the scope will show as a USB device but you will have to use the closed proprietary driver for it (or reverse engineer the scope). If the scope isn’t showing then that could be a fx3 chip requiring it’s firmware downloaded from the driver at which point the scope usb restarts and it’s usb id changes from the unknown to a specific id.
LT;DR answer is you need to use a driver. Which I suspect openhantek resolves too.
No problem. There's probably alot more knowledgeable people but here's my take on your question - I'll break it down in what the requirements need, and look at what is needed for those:
High voltage and safety are important - passive isolation is typically made by a probe so that the scope only sees a tiny portion of the voltage. For example the front end of a SDS1104X-E is 400Vpk which means after a 10x that is 4000Vpk and after 100x that's 40,000Vpk BUT the probs supplied only insulate for 300V for both 1x and 10x settings. So this is why you can use a 100x high voltage probe with 10KV insulation with a lower voltage front end. If the probe is subjected to higher voltage than it's rating two things can happen (a) the insulation to earth in the probe breaks down and that can be through you, and, (b) the insulation to the lower voltage potential (your scope and the low voltage USB lead) can breakdown and destroy the scope frontend and anything attached to it. We'll come onto this piece for the SMPS.
Ground reference - so one of the main issues with a HV probe is that it is referenced to ground. A more expensive option here is to support floating work (such as connecting across -320Vdc and +320Vdc) is an active differential probe - these are more expensive. A single 100Mhz differential probe can be had for £150 in a sale or you're looking at 300+.
You'll want AC and DC coupling. AC for most of the wave work, DC is useful for understanding full picture (ie tubes run at DC offsets, or grid bias etc) but the AC is what most people use for analysing the clipping etc and it allows the ADC to focus it's limited 8bits on the wave form not across and not waste ADC range on the DC and have to use limited offsetting.
Now we talk about the downsides - the HV probes limit bandwidth (typically in the low MHz).
The issue for DSOs and HV is that that 8bit ADC range is spread over the scope input frequency, so naturally the voltage levels are now multiplied by 100x etc. Opamps are used to scale/window the ADC coverage the input with sensitive but your 8bits are still then focused on a small window. This can become sensitive to noise etc. Typically the triggering is based in this window and can be configured for a second channel's window to look for specifics so it's not a complete loss - vs analogue which tend not to have this issue of bit resolution.
Tubes and SS can oscillate well into the MHz so if you can provide a low voltage test point you can use lower voltage probes but if you're really designing tube amps a good HV, or better a differential probe, should be in your kit but if you're tube amp is 200V max for example then you can get away with 300V 10x probes (as long as your AC wave form remains under 300Vpk).
Here I would put JFET, MOSFET, BJT - all need to cope with the higher voltage (normal probes are fine) but you want the option of being accurate and capturing rise times etc so speed of the scope helps but for audio it doesn't need to be that fast. You could do this with a 50Mhz scope but if you want to test square waves - the harmonics need more bandwidth to prevent the square wave from being misshaped - typically you want 5x the scope bandwidth for a square wave frequency and then cable quality starts playing for really good measurements (and high frequency).
So if it's already built then do you need digital clocking? Chances are, probably not and it's audio you need but a faster scope will allow you to see the noise of D class amplification on the audio output from the switching.
If you're switching to digital input such as i2S then any scope that can show the speed of the square wave you're generating but you will want to see the relationship between the signals - this is where a 4 channel scope is useful.
Ok this one comes with a warning. The switching mosfet in SMPS with an inductor can spike with a transient to very high voltages (think KV). Typically well designed commercial SMPS attempt to design to control that but there is a chance that either a faulty or badly/cheap design does not do this. That will be over your normal 300V probes and you should be looking at higher KV rated probes. For example mosfets used for switching are 1.2KV rated when switching ~200-300V. So know what your sticking your probe and where the ground is going. You don't want to be holding a 300V probe at that part of the circuit. Better still avoid this until you have learn more and are comfortable with the tube amps.
I don't know enough about this (I have built my own) but most of the measurements I have made are with a 100W 8R load on the amp and monitoring the amp in those situations.
Bode Plot - this requires something to generate the tone, and something to measure the input signal and the output signal. What happens is that the the frequency of the generated tone is swept across the frequency range in steps to plot the response graph. The scope then measures that, does its calculations and asks the generator for the next tone.
In my setup, I originally used a scope with a python software program to generate a tone at the frequency that the scope needs for each step of the sweep (the scope has built in bode software to plot the graph). That worked well for line level 1Hz-20Khz using the Mac mini headphone socket but you have to factor in the audio circuit of the compute. Other apps like REW can do this using a sound card and calibrate etc. In the end I purchased a signal generator that works simply with a usb cable between the scope and the sig gen. It's then all automated from there.
I am building the ADC as a spectrum analyser - I can then use the frequency generator but use the ADC for a better measurement of the response.
If you want either FFT or a bode plot. This is heavily related to THD%+N and SNR measurements too.
An FFT will provide you the frequency vs amplitude view and you will be able to see harmonics and a noise floor (note what you see is dependent on the scope ADC and noise floor).
A scope has 8bit resolution which will be ~40dB range (offset or scaled) and it will limit both noise floor measurements and accuracy of the measurement. This is because a scope is more designed for speed rather than depth. A spectrum analyser is designed for depth but a narrow band of speed. Most PC apps can do audio spectrum analysis using a good sound card as a starting point with a good 192Khz and 24bit outclassing a basic scope.
I still find the scope handy for FFT (it's an inbuilt function available under the 'maths' feature of the scope and can have a wave and FFT on screen at the same time even up into the high frequency as the scope can sample at 1GSPS). However it has it's limitations for audio so I'm building my own 192KHz 32bit ADC using a AKM 5572 ADC for amp analysis.
So in short - a PC running REW with a low noise sound card/aquisition device will outclass the scope in the audio range FFT for both FFT and Bode plotting in the audio range.
The RF spectrum analysers you see typically start at 9Khz so they're not suited for audio work. Older spectrum analysers (such as HP etc) on the secondhand market are definitely worth checking out if you have the room.
THD (total harmonic distortion) and SNR (signal to noise) can be worked out with maths from a good FFT but apps like REW can calculate this without you needing to know the maths.
An audio spectrum analyser (as mentioned above) such as Room Equalisation Wizard (REW) etc will be able to help you see the harmonics in the FFT and THD.
REW again is probably what you're looking for. In this case you probably want an acquisition device (ADC) or sound card with a calibrated microphone.
If you think of:
- scope - fast & shallow (MHz & 8bit), showing voltage over time. This means the waveform over time for AC.
- spectrum analysis (FFT) - slow and deep (KHz & 32bit), showing frequency and amplitude.
I would suspect anything giving you scope and component testing is simply attempting marketing BS. Yes a component tester is measuring things like RC time for caps, or other measurements then applying a calculation to give inductance, ESD and leakage.
One thing to note is the response is dependant on frequency. For things like designing speaker cross overs, I suspect knowing the precise values across a frequency range is just as important for a component.
This is where dedicated testers are better - I'm talking about vs Arduino style testers - as they can often test caps at their full voltage and inductors across frequency and current range etc. Just more expense and more desk space!
Having a good multimeter will solve alot of these but a dedicated LCR meter is better but they cost more..
In this journey I started with two no-name (and now partially working) multimeters. Since then I've added a scope, two bench supplies, a signal generator and an ADC for spectrum analysis plus new HV leads, RF BNC cables (don't under estimate the benefit of reliably good cables and connections!). I see a good multimeter will be on my list next (I use the scope for this quite often!).
Unless someone here has used that specific model/brand I would treat it as an aliexpress special.. promising everything and giving very little or nothing at all.
Save for a good multimeter then learn the tests manually - alot can be done and if you get a good ampere clamp style multimeter you can use that on cars. Most multimeters will have voltage, current (incircuit), diode, HFE, capacitance and often inductance but a clamp also adds current without being in circuit. For example: Fluke clamp multimeter although 5x the price, you can measure up to 400A not 10A that in-curcuit multimeters are limited to. Car amps draw alot of current so it's worth thinking about that angle. As soon as you start adding L and C onto a multimeter the cost will rise.
Probably alot of analysis in that and I hope someone will simply say this model of multimeter will work for cars best.
If you have got this far.. one thing should stand out: There is no single device that does everything unfortunately.
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Manjaro is based on Arch which is not Debian; reading online suggest it is independently developed. Many incompatibilities will be met on my system. It is also "bleeding edge" which I do not want.
A more helpful post would have been posting openhantek6022 dependency tree. Nevertheless, my USB scope has four channels and this has only two, which means, the driver is most probably incompatible.
The OP was asking about the Hantek 6022BE which is 2 channel. Why say the software doesn't work because you can't use it/don't have the scope it works with?
Anyhow, openhantek6022 is developed on Debian.
https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenHantek6022
Here's a .deb https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenH...d/3.3.1/openhantek_20220731-b3afdec_amd64.deb Maybe it'll work for you.
Anyhow, openhantek6022 is developed on Debian.
https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenHantek6022
Here's a .deb https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenH...d/3.3.1/openhantek_20220731-b3afdec_amd64.deb Maybe it'll work for you.
Nick, Guys
Again massive thank you for the effort you have taken, much appreciated. There probably are more knowledgeable people, but most don't get the DIY nature and spirit and the concept of building each other up. I grew up in my teens in a Lebanese type community in Sydney and can recognise this. How everybody wins through networking and all rise together in many ways, especially finding paths through established systems, layering a patch that suits a fellowship. In our case, it's fringe delvers and enthusiasts looking for our own musical 'Svarga' by our own means instead of just shopping. I want to reassure you that I have gone over your writing and found you made available your knowledge in depth. It is I who does not have the comprehension of this. I am trying to follow and understand, but I am finding it very difficult. Maybe after getting comfortable using one, I will learn the ins and outs over time and understand more of what you tried to teach. Thank you again
High voltage and Safety
Do you mean that a screwdriver is not a probe? 😕
That a massive "ring cow" transformer should not be probed across the secondaries with the screwdriver, and that disintegrated particles of molten metal travelling with high energy may be frowned upon? Lol, 32yrs ago when I was in high school yr10, I saved up pocket money to buy a 500wrms board, toroid PSU, 15" pa and piezo drivers from Jaycar in Sydney. Local council had given permission to use its hall for DJ practice and our teenage reggae parties (the lady really liked me). So, friend and I get all this gear home on the bus, hook it all up to each other. We used a bedside drawer chest to make a speaker box. Didn't have money for amp chassis, so fitted all the electronics inside a milk crate! On power on, nothing was happening. For some reason, I thot to check across the transformer output to see if it sparked. The milk crate looked pretty funky, speckled with metal dots
I'll re check what I need to measure and probe. I hope to get set up with some fairly decent and reasonably well performing equipment on a very tight budget. I am in semi retirement with an injury from an accident that will be hitting 1yr under wound care program next month. I will be undergoing rehab for a while after this wound closes over so trying to set up a cottage craft endeavour to go into a working retirement
I made a bass amp and bass guitar for my then 8yr old daughter last year. I have earned considerable esteem locally from everyone in the inter schools as well as our local music shop. We live in a regional small city and only have one proper music shop, the next one is 1.5-hour drive away. The amp has been auditioned by the shop and was more defined, authoritative, deeper, less noisy than their lineup in a size smaller than the smallest fender bass amp. They asked me to put it in the shop
I decided to go into production of a small and large bass amp and put my brand out there in the shops and online in an eBay shop. I have purchased a CNC router with a laser head and a 3D printer that can do 40cmx40cmx40cm. We have a council reuse centre and I found a large solid wood table and tube lighting systems, so have set up an annex room as a workshop. I already had most wood working tools and some metal stuff like welders and fairly comprehensive car/boat tool sets. I am a fairly accomplished woodworker and boat builder, and have in the past studied electrical in Tafe and worked for a major sign maker with high voltage neon. I also ran a successful fishing tackle manufacturing business for many years, then lost the taste for the blood sport. I live in one of Australia's biggest fishing destinations, but a music endeavour sits happily on the soul
I will be trying to make a full ply sheet size laser cutter after used to what makes these things tick from the ones that I have
I have a good true RMS multimeter for checking PSU voltages. As you mentioned, I like the idea of a second multi with a clamp for current. Between the two, I think I will be covered for monitoring and measuring the PSU that I will use for now. They are three different SMPS, two types for poweramps and one for my tube front end, replacing my current jfet setup. At the moment, these PSUs are fairly disposable format that I am trying to re engineer to a thru hole design eventually (thru hole vs SMD, let's not go into this here)
What do I need the scope for?
Small audio signal waveform
Amplifier output waveform
Clipping
Distortion
I need the best value to get away with to see a workable waveform to do this
What else I need to measure
Passive components for quick correct ID with poor in close eye vision. I do have a soldering stand with a lens, but it's still difficult. I have a large spare monitor, so looking to get an electronic microscope for that
Monitor and measure the shape of the tone controls and small and large signal outputs from 20hz-20khz, still not sure how to do this
For the speakers, I found this. The price looks reasonable and loud and proud in self-confidence
Can I use this only for speakers?
Would it do anything for testing circuits like pres and poweramps?
Can it be used as the signal generator for another scope?
Very tempted to buy this right now 🙂
DATS V3
I would still be happy to use the DATS for speakers and an ok scope for circuits. As you said, no single device......
Jason suggested this earlier. I can just about manage this and the DATS using paypals in four payments offer
OWON Vds1022I
A cheaper scope that can give me a workable waveform (in conjunction with the DATS) to see audio waveforms would be more financially appealing. I found this
DSO2512G
With my limited understanding, this and the DATS plus two multis and a component tester seem a workable bench setup. I also have some volt meters to fit to the bench
Please keep helping, guys. I really appreciate it and am grateful for your time. Thanks and regards
Randy
Browsing the source tree I found the firmware files do not include my model strongly suggesting a failure to use it on my system under Linux.kodabmx said:
So this looks like through hole components would be best as a starting point. If you're looking at SMT then something that is magnifying and has adequate adjustable lighting would be useful.
You do this by running a bode plot, for example:
Todo this you have to input a sweeping single tone into the tone network and then measure the output compared to the input - the scope uses two channels with one probe on the input and one on the output.
In reality the rest of the amp may also change the frequency response so you may as well measure the input into the amp and the output from the power amp stage. This should show a better plot but at the moment I don't have time to finish this response.
Thanks heaps Nick
Looks like I just am not able to work out if one or two of these devices linked above will do for me. Very tempted to just take a gamble on the DATSv3 and DSO2512G combo. If the DATSv3 can also be used for pre and power amp audio signal display, then it would make for a good first unit for me to order
Hi Randy,
I wouldn't buy that combo, it doesn't allow you to do everything you want to do.
Instead of DATS, get ARTA software instead. ARTA does everything DATS does, plus distortion/frequency response testing of your amplifiers and acoustic speaker testing with microphones. You need the ARTA software (75 euro), a USB audio interface with 48V phantom power for the mic, and a very simple diy switch box for impedance testing. A cheap measurement microphone like the ecm8000 will get you into acoustic testing.
For scopes I would skip the USB and handheld ones and buy a regular desktop one like the $210 Hantek DSO2C10 from banggood. If you want to spend less than that just get a used analog scope instead.
I wouldn't buy that combo, it doesn't allow you to do everything you want to do.
Instead of DATS, get ARTA software instead. ARTA does everything DATS does, plus distortion/frequency response testing of your amplifiers and acoustic speaker testing with microphones. You need the ARTA software (75 euro), a USB audio interface with 48V phantom power for the mic, and a very simple diy switch box for impedance testing. A cheap measurement microphone like the ecm8000 will get you into acoustic testing.
For scopes I would skip the USB and handheld ones and buy a regular desktop one like the $210 Hantek DSO2C10 from banggood. If you want to spend less than that just get a used analog scope instead.
Eeevblog has a video on finding a $50 scope on ebay here
And here's the eevblog review of the $70 scope you were considering
And here's the eevblog review of the $70 scope you were considering