I would like to get advice on choice of a 6" - 7" fullrange driver for a backloaded horn.
Man years ago I built a BLH based on Ron Clarke's Austin126 design. It uses a Fostex FE108ez and I am very pleased with the result. Now I wish to build another BLH for a larger room and with a larger driver. It will be fed by a push-pull 300B 20W amplifier. I am thinking of basing the cabinet design on the Austin166 but I wonder what driver to use. The exact dimensions will of course depend on the driver parameters.
The music will primarily be classical orchestra and opera. Voice and midrange clarity is important but deep deep bass is not. Age and tinnitus means that response above 10 kHz is not so important. The listening room is 20 sq.m and the listening position is more or less on-axis.
An "obvious" choice would be the FE168ez but I know that there are newer drivers on the market (MarkAudio etc). Any suggestions? My budget limit is around the cost of the FE168ez (€300 - 400)
Thanks / Michael
Man years ago I built a BLH based on Ron Clarke's Austin126 design. It uses a Fostex FE108ez and I am very pleased with the result. Now I wish to build another BLH for a larger room and with a larger driver. It will be fed by a push-pull 300B 20W amplifier. I am thinking of basing the cabinet design on the Austin166 but I wonder what driver to use. The exact dimensions will of course depend on the driver parameters.
The music will primarily be classical orchestra and opera. Voice and midrange clarity is important but deep deep bass is not. Age and tinnitus means that response above 10 kHz is not so important. The listening room is 20 sq.m and the listening position is more or less on-axis.
An "obvious" choice would be the FE168ez but I know that there are newer drivers on the market (MarkAudio etc). Any suggestions? My budget limit is around the cost of the FE168ez (€300 - 400)
Thanks / Michael
The Tang Band W8-1772 is very suited for a BLH. But it has a certain subtile colouration that you may like or not. For the rest that would be the best choice probally. A Fostex FE206 or FE208 type is also fit for that. If you like Lowther and like to spend a lot of money (they are overpriced) the PM2a is also fit for it.
Mark Audio drivers are not fit for BLH, they are more suited for TL or reflex type of cabinets with their specs.
Mark Audio drivers are not fit for BLH, they are more suited for TL or reflex type of cabinets with their specs.
It's a little small 5inch, but I like Alpar10.3 installed on BLH.
Alpair10.3 + NuPrime STA-9(A+D class digital amp)
Alpai10.3 + Triode VP-300BD(300B, 20W+20W)
Alpair10.3 + Nmode X-PM7(1bit Digital Amp)
Alpair10.3 + NuPrime STA-9(A+D class digital amp)
Alpai10.3 + Triode VP-300BD(300B, 20W+20W)
Alpair10.3 + Nmode X-PM7(1bit Digital Amp)
Have a look at the Frugal-horns.com and woden.com sites for inspiration.
Not a big fan of the W8-1772 (overpriced and coloured), FE166 (of amy flavour) should work in A166 (we too built A126, a wondeful horn), the FE166 has different issues.
Alpair 10.3/10p/12p in a suitable horn would be my first choice.
Nandape’s ML-Voigt is on the edge of being a horn.
dave
Not a big fan of the W8-1772 (overpriced and coloured), FE166 (of amy flavour) should work in A166 (we too built A126, a wondeful horn), the FE166 has different issues.
Alpair 10.3/10p/12p in a suitable horn would be my first choice.
Nandape’s ML-Voigt is on the edge of being a horn.
dave
I have two pairs of Sonido fullrangers 8" and 6.5". The smaller ones are in backloaded horns and are great.
Thanks for your suggestions.
The Alpair drivers seem very interesting - and affordable. The frequency curve (for what it is worth) for the 10.3 shows a small dip in midrange and a hump around 10k, whereas the 10P and 12P curves look a lot smoother. Does real-life listening bear this out?
The cone material between the 10P and 12P seems to be different. How does this affect the sound? I would go for the 12P provided that the final cabinet isn't too large (subjective criteria of course)
The Alpair drivers seem very interesting - and affordable. The frequency curve (for what it is worth) for the 10.3 shows a small dip in midrange and a hump around 10k, whereas the 10P and 12P curves look a lot smoother. Does real-life listening bear this out?
The cone material between the 10P and 12P seems to be different. How does this affect the sound? I would go for the 12P provided that the final cabinet isn't too large (subjective criteria of course)
I think TQWT is more better than BLH for 7"-8" size.
The orchestra sounds on the SB Acoustics 8" is wonderful.
Metal or paper? Please choice your preference.
MarkAudio CHR-120 + TQWT
SB Acoustics SB20FRPC30-8 + TQWT
The orchestra sounds on the SB Acoustics 8" is wonderful.
Metal or paper? Please choice your preference.
MarkAudio CHR-120 + TQWT
SB Acoustics SB20FRPC30-8 + TQWT
I have an 10.3. While it is a gret driver, I sometimes feel that there is some sibilance there, and I am tempted to use a notch filter.
While browsing this forum, later I've seen that I was not alone in spotting this. Maybe it will get better as the driver breaks-in (it is relatively new), maybe not.
On the other hand, 10p is a bit softer on top, has a more "vintage" sound, but, as I understood, sounds more balanced.
Hence, based on your requirements and preferences, I consider that the 10p would check all marks 🙂
The A6/10/12p (paper cones) have what i call a vintage top. It is somewhat subdued compared to many FRs. The metal cone Mark Audios have a quite different voicing, I say that the comparison of A10p and A10.3 ia that is you have 6 of one, a half-dozen of the other. I tend to prefer paper, CHris chose metal.
The metal cone is probably more “accurate”. All FR drivers transition to chaotic behaviour… (not in the same way a DML is chaotic), how much “control” this chaos has has tends to determine top end. More control means less ringing and more vintage top. Now some will add a passive notch filter to tamp down the GF resonances of the A10.3. waxx has one for instance. We modded the drivers, part of that treatment dmping down the top’s ringing at the sourse so that could be why were never ever tempted to add a filter.
When i was selling these my clients chose A10p at least 2x as often as A10.3. A10p a fave of the small tube amp crowd. Of A10.3, copper was more popular with North Americans, Silver in the EU.
dave
That makes little sense Nandappe. A TQWP (Voigt) is a horn, and yours are Mass-Loaded ML-Voigts so not a TQWP technically.
They can work fine, they do need to be designed for the intended driver.
dave
Have a look through this thread: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/alpair-12p-cabinet-options.219389/page-2
jeff