I have several old school Orion XTR and HCCA amps I'd love to repair and get back into my car ASAP but I'm new to amp repair and the shipping charges alone prevent me sending them to a shop. And pardon my errors if I use the wrong terminolgy (FETs, filter caps, etc) as I'm still learning. Amps in need:
Orion 450 XTR (smaller cap blew and shorted nearby FETs)
Orion 425 HCCA (powers on but no sound)
Orion 425 HCCA (blown one of two 30A fuses on power up)
Orion 2100 HCCA (magic smoke released on power up with tweeters connected, opened to find internal fuses bypassed! and FWIW my external 120A fuse did not blow)
Orion 2250 SX (currently working but needs a refresh)
I have some mild soldering, rework, and DMM experience and want to take on this project but I've run into a few roadblocks.
1) What kind of material is used between the heatsinks and the top of the power transistors? Its white and likely has adhesive on one, if not both, sides. I can provide photos if needed. I assume it is some kind of heat transfer tape, stuck onto the heatsink then basically thermally attached to the FETs after clamping and "cooking" for awhile. Obviously it needs to transfer heat and not be electrically conductive. I thought I saw Kapton tape recommended but I only see that available in transparent orange. I'm looking for the opaque white stuff that Orion used. Or solid recommendations on what else I could use. A link would be helpful!
2) On the opposite side of the FETs between them and the clamp bars there is another type of tape? Almost seems like double-sided foam tape. Any idea? I'd hate to get the wrong replacement stuff and have it catch fire from the heat.
3) Capacitors!!! I've spent countless nights looking for the right replacement caps but am confused. One example: XTR450 stopped working and I found a smaller blown cap that shorted a channel of FETs and also saw 2 larger swollen (filter?) caps. The larger caps are Samwha 3300uf, 35WV, 105C and the physical area used by the cap measured to about 1.050" tall and 1.020" wide. Ok, so I can filter based on those specs on DigiKey or wherever but I'm unclear on what else to look for. I don't see a "low ESR" filter and don't see much with a ripple over 3A (as I've seen recommended on forums). Can anyone provide a link for a good substitute or suggestion for what to look for in an acceptable cap? I'll probably need many of these larger caps so I want to KNOW that I'm buying the proper type/brand/series before moving forward. I don't see any Samwha 3300uf on DigiKey at all so substitutes seem required. And the fact that Digikey doesn't have these original caps listed is making it difficult for me to compare them to modern substitutes. Any advice or suggestions for a good replacement? And these Orion boards use radial can capacitors and not "snap in" style, right? I'm waiting for a rework station to arrive and haven't pulled anything off the boards yet.
Many thanks for any advice. Hopefully after I have the caps and heat transfer solutions in place I'll be able to move forward with this project. I've already pulled the clamp bars and started testing the FETs. Replacements/substitutes for those have been easy enough to find but the caps and tape have me stumped! Sad there aren't schematics available or even part listings. I've started compiling a list on parts used for each of the amps I've got and will share once completed. Hopefully it helps save others some time.
Orion 450 XTR (smaller cap blew and shorted nearby FETs)
Orion 425 HCCA (powers on but no sound)
Orion 425 HCCA (blown one of two 30A fuses on power up)
Orion 2100 HCCA (magic smoke released on power up with tweeters connected, opened to find internal fuses bypassed! and FWIW my external 120A fuse did not blow)
Orion 2250 SX (currently working but needs a refresh)
I have some mild soldering, rework, and DMM experience and want to take on this project but I've run into a few roadblocks.
1) What kind of material is used between the heatsinks and the top of the power transistors? Its white and likely has adhesive on one, if not both, sides. I can provide photos if needed. I assume it is some kind of heat transfer tape, stuck onto the heatsink then basically thermally attached to the FETs after clamping and "cooking" for awhile. Obviously it needs to transfer heat and not be electrically conductive. I thought I saw Kapton tape recommended but I only see that available in transparent orange. I'm looking for the opaque white stuff that Orion used. Or solid recommendations on what else I could use. A link would be helpful!
2) On the opposite side of the FETs between them and the clamp bars there is another type of tape? Almost seems like double-sided foam tape. Any idea? I'd hate to get the wrong replacement stuff and have it catch fire from the heat.
3) Capacitors!!! I've spent countless nights looking for the right replacement caps but am confused. One example: XTR450 stopped working and I found a smaller blown cap that shorted a channel of FETs and also saw 2 larger swollen (filter?) caps. The larger caps are Samwha 3300uf, 35WV, 105C and the physical area used by the cap measured to about 1.050" tall and 1.020" wide. Ok, so I can filter based on those specs on DigiKey or wherever but I'm unclear on what else to look for. I don't see a "low ESR" filter and don't see much with a ripple over 3A (as I've seen recommended on forums). Can anyone provide a link for a good substitute or suggestion for what to look for in an acceptable cap? I'll probably need many of these larger caps so I want to KNOW that I'm buying the proper type/brand/series before moving forward. I don't see any Samwha 3300uf on DigiKey at all so substitutes seem required. And the fact that Digikey doesn't have these original caps listed is making it difficult for me to compare them to modern substitutes. Any advice or suggestions for a good replacement? And these Orion boards use radial can capacitors and not "snap in" style, right? I'm waiting for a rework station to arrive and haven't pulled anything off the boards yet.
Many thanks for any advice. Hopefully after I have the caps and heat transfer solutions in place I'll be able to move forward with this project. I've already pulled the clamp bars and started testing the FETs. Replacements/substitutes for those have been easy enough to find but the caps and tape have me stumped! Sad there aren't schematics available or even part listings. I've started compiling a list on parts used for each of the amps I've got and will share once completed. Hopefully it helps save others some time.
They used multiple insulators between the transistors and the heatsink. The Kapton tape on a roll will be the easiest to source.
I replaced the double-sided foam tape with high-temp silicone. Part number 1466N12 from McMaster-Carr. If you use the foam tape, prepare to re-tighten the clamp screws multiple times as the amp heats up during burn-in.
Caps, The HE series Nichicon are low ESR.
The 120 amp external fuse is for the wire's protection. The internals are for the amp. Orion recommends 30 amp fuses but you'll likely have to go to a 40 or even a 50 if the amp is going to be abused. Don't use cheap AGU fuses.
If you have questions on a specific amp, start a new thread for that amp.
Post at least one photo of the amp because there were multiple revisions.
I replaced the double-sided foam tape with high-temp silicone. Part number 1466N12 from McMaster-Carr. If you use the foam tape, prepare to re-tighten the clamp screws multiple times as the amp heats up during burn-in.
Caps, The HE series Nichicon are low ESR.
The 120 amp external fuse is for the wire's protection. The internals are for the amp. Orion recommends 30 amp fuses but you'll likely have to go to a 40 or even a 50 if the amp is going to be abused. Don't use cheap AGU fuses.
If you have questions on a specific amp, start a new thread for that amp.
Post at least one photo of the amp because there were multiple revisions.
Thanks Perry, I'll try some 2mil 1" wide Kapton tape on the heatsink and the silicone strips on the bars.
In regards to the Nichicon HE series caps, do you know if they will fit? The HE 3300uf 30V 105C caps appear significantly taller than the OEM Samwha caps. I'm thinking they may be about 5mm too tall thus blocking the amp's bottom plate from going back on.
Using calipers I measured the height between the PCB and the top of the original cap at 1.050" (26.67mm) tall.
And 1.200" (30.48mm) is what I think the max height could be based on PCB to bottom of side plate measurement.
I haven't found any low ESR caps in 3300uf and 35V that come in that short. I feel like I'm doing something wrong or there would be more options. The HE series specs I'm seeing make me think they will not fit in an Orion XTR450.
https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdfs/e-he.pdf
I'm not sure which series Samwha caps were used so I haven't had much luck matching specs to the OEM caps. I'll start amp specific threads with detailed photos once I wrap my head around finding a matching cap. If I can't figure out this part then this repair project is dead in the water! I would think technology would have allowed caps to shrink in size and thus make the hunt for a substitute far easier.
In regards to the Nichicon HE series caps, do you know if they will fit? The HE 3300uf 30V 105C caps appear significantly taller than the OEM Samwha caps. I'm thinking they may be about 5mm too tall thus blocking the amp's bottom plate from going back on.
Using calipers I measured the height between the PCB and the top of the original cap at 1.050" (26.67mm) tall.
And 1.200" (30.48mm) is what I think the max height could be based on PCB to bottom of side plate measurement.
I haven't found any low ESR caps in 3300uf and 35V that come in that short. I feel like I'm doing something wrong or there would be more options. The HE series specs I'm seeing make me think they will not fit in an Orion XTR450.
https://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/products/pdfs/e-he.pdf
I'm not sure which series Samwha caps were used so I haven't had much luck matching specs to the OEM caps. I'll start amp specific threads with detailed photos once I wrap my head around finding a matching cap. If I can't figure out this part then this repair project is dead in the water! I would think technology would have allowed caps to shrink in size and thus make the hunt for a substitute far easier.
I worry about the 3300uf 35V cap replacement the most as it is one of the biggest and most widely used model across several of these amps. I'm looking at replacing a dozen or so hence then importance of me finding an appropriate replacement! Guess I am paranoid that I'll end up with the wrong hardware.
I’m not sure on the terminology but they are the largest caps and close to the power/speaker terminals. Black tops. I also have 2 Orion 425s that each need 4 of these 3300uf 35V caps.
If you push down on the top cover that's up, does it push down or is it solid?
Those are on the primary.
Those are on the primary.
They feel solid when I push down on them. Very firm. Zero squish. Same for the wavey/bumpy caps in the 425.
Try to find a 'datasheet' for the capacitor. Use the manufacturer's name and the series name/number. It's generally 2 letters but can be something more significant.
I managed to get one of the caps removed for a better view. Was hoping to find more helpful info but I’m not seeing much. I have been searching for a datasheet for over a week but can’t find anything for “Samwha RA series” or “Samwha f0a series”. I’m guessing the F0A is a date code? I’ve tried searching Samwha, Google, DigiKey, Mouser, and countless random tech websites to no avail.
Samwha Series webpage:
http://www.samwha.com/electric/product/goodsDetail.aspx?f_num=39
This is not the big 3300uf cap but a smaller one of the same series. Where would you look for info when the above resources turn up nothing?
Attachments
One of the most annoying things about this is that in this pic you can see how the smaller caps the manufacturer is spelled “SAMWHA” but on the filter/primary caps it is spelled “SAMHWA”. I’m guessing one is a fake. This is found on an XTR450 and a 425HCCA.
Attachments
http://2.imimg.com/data2/SD/JD/MY-/samwha-catalogue.pdf
Page 6 shows RA id now RD. Page 80 shows them to be 105C general purpose caps.
It's unlikely that the caps are fake/counterfeit. It wouldn't surprise me if it's a typo.
Page 6 shows RA id now RD. Page 80 shows them to be 105C general purpose caps.
It's unlikely that the caps are fake/counterfeit. It wouldn't surprise me if it's a typo.
I just wanted to say Thanks Perry for the help! It took me a long time to figure out why I couldn't desolder the caps (new soldering station was bad) but I have removed them, measured, and ordered replacements. Your advice, website, and link were a huge help. I think part of the reason I was having issues finding replacements was because I was filtering the cap selection on Digi-Key with "through hole" only. Turns out my large filter caps are snap in style. Doh!
I'll create amplifier specific threads going forward as I troubleshoot these Orions. Thanks again!
I'll create amplifier specific threads going forward as I troubleshoot these Orions. Thanks again!