I have a Sony KD43 TV set. It provides me with TV (of course) and radio broadcast.
- Provider is KPN in the Netherlands.
I took the output from the TOSLINK output. To a GD-Audio non-oversampling PCM1704 player. Superb when driven by coax from player.
Some stations are good (that is : one mostly really good, KLARA) but many differ in quality. Such as Hilversum 4 (sorry couldn’t resist, radio vier guys).
—> often it is just a squemish hashbash.
Someone said this is typical of the low quality Toslink, and that I should insert a reclocker/de-jitterer directly at the output port (for instance like a plug that incorporates the box with electronics)
So I now take the signal from the decoder. Same quality difference really.
So twice Toslink output port garbage? Would surprise me.
Question:
- is the Dutch broadcast via KPN such a poor state of affairs that they do not care to ensure their input is good and only KLARA really has a well-clocked input?
I have an old pc with internet and usb out. Worth the try to dind internet-based streams?
Is that reclocker agood thing? Which?
- Provider is KPN in the Netherlands.
I took the output from the TOSLINK output. To a GD-Audio non-oversampling PCM1704 player. Superb when driven by coax from player.
Some stations are good (that is : one mostly really good, KLARA) but many differ in quality. Such as Hilversum 4 (sorry couldn’t resist, radio vier guys).
—> often it is just a squemish hashbash.
Someone said this is typical of the low quality Toslink, and that I should insert a reclocker/de-jitterer directly at the output port (for instance like a plug that incorporates the box with electronics)
So I now take the signal from the decoder. Same quality difference really.
So twice Toslink output port garbage? Would surprise me.
Question:
- is the Dutch broadcast via KPN such a poor state of affairs that they do not care to ensure their input is good and only KLARA really has a well-clocked input?
I have an old pc with internet and usb out. Worth the try to dind internet-based streams?
Is that reclocker agood thing? Which?
Sorry, yes it is.
But TOSlink also is the worst you can get from digital. SP/DIF AES or coax is much better. Lots and lots of jitter on most TOSlink.
If you want to hear music no Dutch radio station has much quality left sorry to say. They all compressed and DSP'd the hell out of it. Only garbage.
You have to go to German or Belgian station to get some better quality. Most internet radio feeds are only 192 kbps so there is nothing to expect there.
For best performance get a multibit DAC, feed it with SP/DIF coax and choose your radio station with care.
Thanks. If this is well known, can't anything be done about it? I remember that Eelco Grimm once had a push for better equalized sound (same level studio and music); it worked and they listened, but slowly they let go of their agreement and music is so much softer often than microphone stuff.
I once worked in telecoms ICT part, 64kB was the default for voice, 128 luxury.
But after internet came they still think bandwidth is a problem. In my experience relayed broadcast operas from the Met in New York (as an example) have a audio bandwidth of some 10 kHz. But bandwidth is free now!
So, go to Ziggo? [No no in our household]
Too bad, my previous TV had a SP/DIF coax. And too bad, I won't open the back of the receiver. 😱 I did several DIY DAC builds (TDA1541, TDA1543 non) that worked on a bench but later, not in a box.
What makes multibit better than NOS?
I once worked in telecoms ICT part, 64kB was the default for voice, 128 luxury.
But after internet came they still think bandwidth is a problem. In my experience relayed broadcast operas from the Met in New York (as an example) have a audio bandwidth of some 10 kHz. But bandwidth is free now!
So, go to Ziggo? [No no in our household]
Too bad, my previous TV had a SP/DIF coax. And too bad, I won't open the back of the receiver. 😱 I did several DIY DAC builds (TDA1541, TDA1543 non) that worked on a bench but later, not in a box.
What makes multibit better than NOS?
Eelco Grimm's input was against the loudness war. It has been effective as LUFS are ruling the streaming platforms. It fights loudness at least a little bit.
But radio is something totally different from streaming. The new DAB radio is something totally different from "old" FM radio. etc.
Bandwidth free? Where did you get that idea?
Bandwidth is and always will be costly as more cables, routers etc have to be put into placed, maintained and powered.
NOS has a every distinct sound to it because of the brick wall filtering that needs to be done. It is not natural sounding to my ears. But tastes vary so you may like it a lot and be happy with it.
If it is not NOS, it still can be S/D or fake multibit (3-5 bit converters). Oversampling can be done right and wrong like everything in audio.
Oversampling is also often used as a trick to make it sound more smooth as it uses a more gently filter slope on the DAC that makes it sound different (not better).
True multibit DAC's are not very common and sad to say often needlessly expensive. They need a very good power supply and thermal stability to be stable and (as in all DAC's) the analogue filtering can make a big difference in sound experience and quality.
Happy listening
But radio is something totally different from streaming. The new DAB radio is something totally different from "old" FM radio. etc.
Bandwidth free? Where did you get that idea?
Bandwidth is and always will be costly as more cables, routers etc have to be put into placed, maintained and powered.
NOS has a every distinct sound to it because of the brick wall filtering that needs to be done. It is not natural sounding to my ears. But tastes vary so you may like it a lot and be happy with it.
If it is not NOS, it still can be S/D or fake multibit (3-5 bit converters). Oversampling can be done right and wrong like everything in audio.
Oversampling is also often used as a trick to make it sound more smooth as it uses a more gently filter slope on the DAC that makes it sound different (not better).
True multibit DAC's are not very common and sad to say often needlessly expensive. They need a very good power supply and thermal stability to be stable and (as in all DAC's) the analogue filtering can make a big difference in sound experience and quality.
Happy listening
I have not heard that many multibits; the most natural sound to my ears was from the Tent b-DAC. But I got lost on that idea somehow and got seduced by the inherent vibrancy of a NOS player.
The difference between recordings is now larger than ever (single instrument or small ensembles indeed great but sometimes orchestra gets lost in a slight mist where there is no benefit from the fast rise time - nothing to enhance ...).
I should look for a Tent DAC maybe . . . I would hope they get a streamer MU2 for those with a lower budget ceiling.
- The last few years I did not visit a shop often (like others) and lost the appetite for "another good sounding but unenticing brickwall/curtain". I mean, all those time-aligned speakers, great to sit down to and not move, that they play at 90 dB or so, but naturalness is someting else imho. The most funny I heard was an KEF speaker with a slight tinging resonance. My nephew had the same spekaer - in his house I found out the alignment ring was loose.
The difference between recordings is now larger than ever (single instrument or small ensembles indeed great but sometimes orchestra gets lost in a slight mist where there is no benefit from the fast rise time - nothing to enhance ...).
I should look for a Tent DAC maybe . . . I would hope they get a streamer MU2 for those with a lower budget ceiling.
- The last few years I did not visit a shop often (like others) and lost the appetite for "another good sounding but unenticing brickwall/curtain". I mean, all those time-aligned speakers, great to sit down to and not move, that they play at 90 dB or so, but naturalness is someting else imho. The most funny I heard was an KEF speaker with a slight tinging resonance. My nephew had the same spekaer - in his house I found out the alignment ring was loose.
You are quite obvious a fan of Grimm and the associates involved.
I sold my b-DAC several years ago when I was testing a dozen DAC's to find the one I best liked.
MU1 is one of that devices that uses the trick of upsampling/oversampling to make it sound different. Heavily, insanely, idiotic and totally bonkers overpriced.
Grimm audio is good sounding stuff in general, but like all high end audio at the moment only for millionaire snobs. Nothing to do with sound any more.
My total system costs less than that streamer alone. Just use a Raspberry Pi and you can have the same result. You have to listen with your ears, not your eyes and most curtainly not with your wallet. More expensive hardly ever means better sounding. It means more snobish and more money spend on looks, marketing, shows and reviewers etc..
You're in the west, I'm in the south of the Netherlands. Always welcome to come and have a chat.
I sold my b-DAC several years ago when I was testing a dozen DAC's to find the one I best liked.
MU1 is one of that devices that uses the trick of upsampling/oversampling to make it sound different. Heavily, insanely, idiotic and totally bonkers overpriced.
Grimm audio is good sounding stuff in general, but like all high end audio at the moment only for millionaire snobs. Nothing to do with sound any more.
My total system costs less than that streamer alone. Just use a Raspberry Pi and you can have the same result. You have to listen with your ears, not your eyes and most curtainly not with your wallet. More expensive hardly ever means better sounding. It means more snobish and more money spend on looks, marketing, shows and reviewers etc..
You're in the west, I'm in the south of the Netherlands. Always welcome to come and have a chat.
Sometimes streaming radio is available in higher quality from a different source. Check out their web site links, or TuneIn.com.
I don't lose any sleep over Toslink's supposed deficiencies; the DAC ($20 yard sale DacMagic) is reclocking and filtering the bitstream so it's very unlikely that any jitter can get through.
I don't lose any sleep over Toslink's supposed deficiencies; the DAC ($20 yard sale DacMagic) is reclocking and filtering the bitstream so it's very unlikely that any jitter can get through.