I'm seeing these moulded horns on eBay from TSG Audio. They seem like a great option but they don't offer a lot of specs and that worries me. Anyone had any experience with them?
I'm trying to build a two-way PA top, I have a horn and compression driver to throw down to 1400hz 90x45. The next driver will be a 12" or 15" and cover down to 250hz.
I'm trying to build a two-way PA top, I have a horn and compression driver to throw down to 1400hz 90x45. The next driver will be a 12" or 15" and cover down to 250hz.
I attached photos but this interface won't accept pics from my iPhone.
https://speakersandamps.com/collect...-horn-model-1095-new-heavy-duty-outdoor-horns
https://speakersandamps.com/collect...-horn-model-1095-new-heavy-duty-outdoor-horns
Given zero specifications, and looking at their site in general, I would not touch it with a ten foot pole...
I was wondering if they are making molds from preexisting gear. Or possibly sell blems from a source that isn't usually retail at all, at least in America. The site IS subpar, and there's a bit of a language barrier when I message them.
Thanks. I can't seem to load pics.
I haven't been able to find anyone else selling horns for cone drivers.
I just want to tighten the dispersion of my mid-bass (200-1400). Particularly the vertical. I want to be able to shoot over the heads of the front of the audience so they aren't blasted and also so the sound is balanced since the compression driver will have 45 degree vertical coverage.
jamesheyser said:
Size is almost everything in that frequency range. Since this component's mouth is only ~1½ times the throat diameter, it won't 'tighten' appreciably.
A 12 inch driver's dispersion is already narrowing significantly at 1400 Hz.
Also, note that a 12 inch throat is not optimally matched to a 12 inch driver.
And it's kind of expensive for something being marketed with no published specs whatsoever, and a hearty red invitation to 'call with questions'!
Member MrKlinky hit the nail on the head.
Cheers
I hear that. What should I be looking at? Does anyone make stuff like this that actually works? I like the idea of a molded horn but maybe I should be looking at commissioning a box? Most of the speaker plans I see are for different applications than mine. I'm not sure where to go from here. The coverage I'm trying to emulate usually comes from a cabinet with a phase plug and a horn that's wider than it is deep (ie eaw kf650).
https://klassicsound.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/KF650e-Spec-Sheet.pdf
https://klassicsound.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/KF650e-Spec-Sheet.pdf
You've gone from a small part of a 3-way system with a sketchy no-specs-whatsoever web page, to a complete full-range somewhat well-specified system. And still no mention of a budget!
One thing lacking in the KF650e PDF, amid all those well-done H and V polar curves, are the recommended / built-in-passive crossover frequencies.
I ran a PA for a local band for some years, using similar crossover frequencies to those you're proposing -- 250 and 1600 Hz -- so I approve of the idea. Our main feedback problem was that mid cabinet which was a ~6 cubic foot ported job -- fully rectangular "because that's just how things were done then". Would LOVE to have another shot at that gig with a mid cabinet with better side lobe and back wave control. I bet we'd've had another 5 or 6dB of very useful gain before feedback!
Cheers
One thing lacking in the KF650e PDF, amid all those well-done H and V polar curves, are the recommended / built-in-passive crossover frequencies.
I ran a PA for a local band for some years, using similar crossover frequencies to those you're proposing -- 250 and 1600 Hz -- so I approve of the idea. Our main feedback problem was that mid cabinet which was a ~6 cubic foot ported job -- fully rectangular "because that's just how things were done then". Would LOVE to have another shot at that gig with a mid cabinet with better side lobe and back wave control. I bet we'd've had another 5 or 6dB of very useful gain before feedback!
Cheers
I'm not pitching the solution I presented, the title of the thread is "are these worth a damn"!!!
And I'm not asking for help building a three way top.
im just asking 1) are these worth a damn (answer is apparently most likely no), 2) if not, are there alternatives LIKE it, and 3) if not, what SHOULD o do to create a directional (especially vertically) mid bass covering 200-1400.
So much of horn theory is about increasing linearity or efficiency, I get lost in all the criteria.
O.K., not trying to pick a fight (and wasn't trying to earlier, either), but to be succinct . .
1) No.
2) If that bit of kit isn't worth a damn, why seek an alternative LIKE it? And what exactly do you really know about it (in terms of pattern control), that the rest of us don't, just by looking at the picture?
3) The wavelength of 200 Hz is about 5 feet 7½ inches. Even if you could achieve the desired pattern control with something nearly that size, keep in mind that the driver(s) it hands off to (at 200 Hz) will not have similar pattern control.
What have you accomplished if the octave from 200 to 400 Hz has polar patterns resembling those of the octaves above it, while the drivers producing the 2½ octaves below it are basically omni-directional?
It sounds a little bit like you have settled on an attribute that you believe will be a big improvement in quality delivered to a certain audience area. I may be just an old curmudgeon with music sound reinforcement experience going back 50 years, but I disagree. I'm sorry to have offended, but it seems like you're a little too attached to a single criterium(sp?) that in the end is only a minor part of the audience's experience of quality. And focusing intensively on that area will often lead to shortfalls in other performance qualities.
While we're at it, let's drop the 'mid-bass' moniker -- 200 Hz roughly qualifies; 1400 Hz does not.
Best Regards
1) No.
2) If that bit of kit isn't worth a damn, why seek an alternative LIKE it? And what exactly do you really know about it (in terms of pattern control), that the rest of us don't, just by looking at the picture?
3) The wavelength of 200 Hz is about 5 feet 7½ inches. Even if you could achieve the desired pattern control with something nearly that size, keep in mind that the driver(s) it hands off to (at 200 Hz) will not have similar pattern control.
What have you accomplished if the octave from 200 to 400 Hz has polar patterns resembling those of the octaves above it, while the drivers producing the 2½ octaves below it are basically omni-directional?
It sounds a little bit like you have settled on an attribute that you believe will be a big improvement in quality delivered to a certain audience area. I may be just an old curmudgeon with music sound reinforcement experience going back 50 years, but I disagree. I'm sorry to have offended, but it seems like you're a little too attached to a single criterium(sp?) that in the end is only a minor part of the audience's experience of quality. And focusing intensively on that area will often lead to shortfalls in other performance qualities.
While we're at it, let's drop the 'mid-bass' moniker -- 200 Hz roughly qualifies; 1400 Hz does not.
Best Regards
Not sure why a 200 dollar outdoor bull horn
seems like a design choice.
There is a few hundred horns available to be paired with a 12" or 15" driver.
If you want a low crossover point for a Horn
B&C ME60 is a common choice.
Paired with the usual DE750 or DE750TN 2" driver
If it is somewhat out of budget, then a 2" driver which is suitable
Otherwise there is numerous JBL horn copies
with a low crossover point.
Otherwise another option for mids and less beaming.
Instead of using a single 12" driver
Use 2 x 8" for mid/ mid bass
Then use a typical 15" or 18" folded horn bin
for bass
seems like a design choice.
There is a few hundred horns available to be paired with a 12" or 15" driver.
If you want a low crossover point for a Horn
B&C ME60 is a common choice.
Paired with the usual DE750 or DE750TN 2" driver
If it is somewhat out of budget, then a 2" driver which is suitable
Otherwise there is numerous JBL horn copies
with a low crossover point.
Otherwise another option for mids and less beaming.
Instead of using a single 12" driver
Use 2 x 8" for mid/ mid bass
Then use a typical 15" or 18" folded horn bin
for bass
Two 8" (or 10") is something to consider, especially if I can take them with a horn.
You see, I'm less concerned about beaming (not to say that I don't care, just less) and more concerned about directing >130db in a way that the people near the front aren't cringing.
I ran kf650's with the middle of the speakerabout 12-13' in the air and I could present a fairly balanced show 100' out without blasting the front rows. According to published data from eaw (which matches my memory) they started to focus vertically around 300hz and were quite focussed at 800 and up.
I'm actually using kf850 compression drivers, same as the 650 but with ferrofluid cooling added (they even use the same diaphragm). And 90degree/45degree horns.
I am trying to create a smaller, lighter cabinet with less bottom end, but similar throw and focus in the ranges the 650 offered. When crossed over at 100 for the subs the 15", which takes up half the cabinet, covered 100hz-210hz. Which always seemed like such a waste, since I LITERALLY never used them without subs. And since they weren't even direction at those frequencies they didn't even need to be flown.
I don't know what the story is with this company, but if they can tighten the coverage of my 10/12/15 (whichever I use) in a way that's lightweight and almost turnkey, that would be a godsend.
If not, I guess I need to commission something. I could manage something simple like the La Scala type of horn, but I can't even figure out if that even effects coverage or just increases efficiency. So much horn design discussion is about efficiency and frequency balance, I just need to focus the 600-1400.
maybe this simpler design would be more predictable? Anyone have any idea if it would help me?
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I'm not offended at all! Sorry if I seemed so.
And I should have said up front that I have no hopes of focusing down to 200. In fact I'd be thrilled if I could focus 800. It's just the same driver is delivering from 200 to 1400, but it's the upper end I want fo focus.
I'm trying to avoid blasting the people 45 degrees off axis (13' away) with too much upper mid.
For whatever reason, the human ear will tolerate excessive and imbalanced lows. I know this because my old system (4 eaw kf650's on 16' towers) did nothing to focus below 500 and were at -6db at 22.5 degrees off vertical axis over 1000hz. And it sounded fine 15' out. Just like subs can make your whole body shake and people still enjoy a dj with four 18's for subs and a pit powered 12" tops on sticks.
Just for ***** and giggles, here's one that intrigued me. I don't know where they come up with these since they don't post the kind of specs you'd expect, this one seems like the throat is WAY too small for a 10"/12" speaker. Is it? I have no idea. But that's what they're saying it is built for.
I was wondering if they are just molding preexisting designs and that's why they don't know more. Who knows.
this one really appealed to me since the 10" on the kf650e has a phase plug and this thing is pretty big (21" wide). But forgive me for rambling, I know this is a science and an art and I'm just making huge leaps to know how this would sound.
They actually told me this one was 110x40 coverage - the first and only one they've given me that spec on. It could be a language barrier and also I don't know if I'm reaching the same person when I have messaged them.
I was wondering if they are just molding preexisting designs and that's why they don't know more. Who knows.
this one really appealed to me since the 10" on the kf650e has a phase plug and this thing is pretty big (21" wide). But forgive me for rambling, I know this is a science and an art and I'm just making huge leaps to know how this would sound.
They actually told me this one was 110x40 coverage - the first and only one they've given me that spec on. It could be a language barrier and also I don't know if I'm reaching the same person when I have messaged them.