Hi all,
This thread is about alternatives to mica, gold, tin and tantalum. If you want to know the rationale behind this, type the name of the material and "child labour" or "conflict mineral" in a search engine.
Political discussions are not allowed on this forum and the moderators have a fairly broad idea about what is political. That's a bit problematic, because building DIY electronics usually involves buying things and any decision to buy or not buy anything has economic and environmental consequences and is in that sense political. I hope the moderators will allow this thread if we refrain from discussions about the advantages and disadvantages of child labour and armed conflicts. Make sure to frequently make local copies of this thread if you should find it interesting.
Mica insulators for semiconductors:
Silicone insulators, other thermally conductive and electrically insulating foils, ceramic insulators (alumina).
Fair trade mica insulators, if those exist; I've never heard of them.
EUVL once compared various ways to insulate semiconductors from a heatsink and found that Keratherm Kerafol 86/82 works very well, see his article "Design considerations for a class-A amplifier enclosure" in Linear Audio volume 3. I haven't a clue what materials it is made from and how those are sourced.
Mica insulators inside valves:
No alternative I know of.
Gold plating of connectors and switches:
Gold is an important contact material for low-level signals because it doesn't oxidize. I don't know a good alternative, but fortunately, gold is an official conflict mineral, so some manufacturers of gold-plated switches and connectors at least have a statement about the origin of their gold. In some cases, reed relays could be an alternative to gold plated relays for low-level switching; reed contacts don't oxidize because they are not subjected to oxygen.
Tin:
I don't know of any alternative to tin for soldering. Fortunately, Stannol has a range of Fairtin solders. Tin is also an official conflict mineral, so there should be manufacturers with a statement about the origin of the tin.
Tantalum capacitors:
Can usually (but not always) be replaced with aluminium electrolytic capacitors or, if linearity doesn't matter at all, class 2 ceramic multilayer capacitors. Tantalum is also an official conflict mineral, some manufacturers of tantalum capacitors have a statement about the origin of their tantalum.
Tungsten, cobalt and lithium:
These are not used a lot in DIY audio equipment, as far as I know.
Regards,
MarcelvdG
This thread is about alternatives to mica, gold, tin and tantalum. If you want to know the rationale behind this, type the name of the material and "child labour" or "conflict mineral" in a search engine.
Political discussions are not allowed on this forum and the moderators have a fairly broad idea about what is political. That's a bit problematic, because building DIY electronics usually involves buying things and any decision to buy or not buy anything has economic and environmental consequences and is in that sense political. I hope the moderators will allow this thread if we refrain from discussions about the advantages and disadvantages of child labour and armed conflicts. Make sure to frequently make local copies of this thread if you should find it interesting.
Mica insulators for semiconductors:
Silicone insulators, other thermally conductive and electrically insulating foils, ceramic insulators (alumina).
Fair trade mica insulators, if those exist; I've never heard of them.
EUVL once compared various ways to insulate semiconductors from a heatsink and found that Keratherm Kerafol 86/82 works very well, see his article "Design considerations for a class-A amplifier enclosure" in Linear Audio volume 3. I haven't a clue what materials it is made from and how those are sourced.
Mica insulators inside valves:
No alternative I know of.
Gold plating of connectors and switches:
Gold is an important contact material for low-level signals because it doesn't oxidize. I don't know a good alternative, but fortunately, gold is an official conflict mineral, so some manufacturers of gold-plated switches and connectors at least have a statement about the origin of their gold. In some cases, reed relays could be an alternative to gold plated relays for low-level switching; reed contacts don't oxidize because they are not subjected to oxygen.
Tin:
I don't know of any alternative to tin for soldering. Fortunately, Stannol has a range of Fairtin solders. Tin is also an official conflict mineral, so there should be manufacturers with a statement about the origin of the tin.
Tantalum capacitors:
Can usually (but not always) be replaced with aluminium electrolytic capacitors or, if linearity doesn't matter at all, class 2 ceramic multilayer capacitors. Tantalum is also an official conflict mineral, some manufacturers of tantalum capacitors have a statement about the origin of their tantalum.
Tungsten, cobalt and lithium:
These are not used a lot in DIY audio equipment, as far as I know.
Regards,
MarcelvdG
Gold an official conflict mineral ?? Maybe in some parts of the world . The only conflict in gold is the constant price manipulation.
A couple of microns of gold plating is nothing against my kilo bars 😀. Most of the gold has been mined already and by big companies.
There are worse things than some people kinda forced to mine some minerals or metals.
Don't get too woke !
A couple of microns of gold plating is nothing against my kilo bars 😀. Most of the gold has been mined already and by big companies.
There are worse things than some people kinda forced to mine some minerals or metals.
Don't get too woke !
Not talking Politics at all, just Economics and Industrial point of view:
1) all those minerals, and many more, are indispensable to modern life, and some have been most important for Millennia , go figure, such as gold and tin , gold since prehistoric times or at least the last 50.000 years (crude gold jewelry since that date exists) and tin, as an essential part of Bronze, has been used since .... ummmm .... the Bronze Age, we are talking 4000-5000 years ago.
Phoenicians travelled Mediterranean end to end for their tin mines in Spain, more than 3000 years ago, then Greeks, then Romans.
Meaning: no, no "alternatives" possible,
Similar considerations for mica and tantalum, usage is more modern, that does not make them less indispensable.
2) just checked one of those minerals, mica, to get a realistic perspective, and how important (or not) is child labour:
first 7 largest producers amount for a grand total of 1.713.000 metric tons.
All of them BIG Industrial powers, none using child labour; if anything because it´s horribly inefficient, I can easily see HUGE machinery, investments, processing plants, transport (rail-truck-sea), etc.
Not a Mining Engineer at all, but an Industrial Engineer, yet part of what we were taught at University was mineral processing, between mining and final smelting or whatever was needed.
We studied and then designed a huge plant which took mineral in bulk ("large rocks"), crushed it into pebbles, then ground it into fine dust, put it into Olympic size "pools", added water and a "detergent" and bubbled air through that mess.
The "dirty foam" which appeared on top carried the useful mineral which was sent away.
Why do I mention this? .... because Mining is BIG INDUSTRY, with a vengeance, no place for little hands playing a significant part.
Check the table above: India and Madagascar which are accused of child labour, of which definitely there is some, only account for some 24000 Tons , some 1.4% of the first 7, and I bet most of that production is carried out by Industrial means, not little kids with baskets (again, for pure Economic/efficiency reasons).
In a nutshell, one abused child is 1 too many, we should improve/avoid that, BUT it´s a minuscule fraction of the real production, probably a fraction of 1%, no reasonable justification to avoid/replace/block 100% production of a most indispensable mineral.
Bet similar numbers apply to all others.
1) all those minerals, and many more, are indispensable to modern life, and some have been most important for Millennia , go figure, such as gold and tin , gold since prehistoric times or at least the last 50.000 years (crude gold jewelry since that date exists) and tin, as an essential part of Bronze, has been used since .... ummmm .... the Bronze Age, we are talking 4000-5000 years ago.
Phoenicians travelled Mediterranean end to end for their tin mines in Spain, more than 3000 years ago, then Greeks, then Romans.
Meaning: no, no "alternatives" possible,
Similar considerations for mica and tantalum, usage is more modern, that does not make them less indispensable.
2) just checked one of those minerals, mica, to get a realistic perspective, and how important (or not) is child labour:
first 7 largest producers amount for a grand total of 1.713.000 metric tons.
All of them BIG Industrial powers, none using child labour; if anything because it´s horribly inefficient, I can easily see HUGE machinery, investments, processing plants, transport (rail-truck-sea), etc.
Not a Mining Engineer at all, but an Industrial Engineer, yet part of what we were taught at University was mineral processing, between mining and final smelting or whatever was needed.
We studied and then designed a huge plant which took mineral in bulk ("large rocks"), crushed it into pebbles, then ground it into fine dust, put it into Olympic size "pools", added water and a "detergent" and bubbled air through that mess.
The "dirty foam" which appeared on top carried the useful mineral which was sent away.
Why do I mention this? .... because Mining is BIG INDUSTRY, with a vengeance, no place for little hands playing a significant part.
Check the table above: India and Madagascar which are accused of child labour, of which definitely there is some, only account for some 24000 Tons , some 1.4% of the first 7, and I bet most of that production is carried out by Industrial means, not little kids with baskets (again, for pure Economic/efficiency reasons).
In a nutshell, one abused child is 1 too many, we should improve/avoid that, BUT it´s a minuscule fraction of the real production, probably a fraction of 1%, no reasonable justification to avoid/replace/block 100% production of a most indispensable mineral.
Bet similar numbers apply to all others.
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Of course all these substances can also come from legitimate sources, that's why I mentioned mica, gold, tin and tantalum with a known and legitimate origin as alternatives for mica, gold, tin and tantalum. By the way, tens of thousands of children work in mica mining alone.
20 000 in India alone in 2015, according to Dylan O'Driscoll, Overview of child labour in the artisanal and small-scale mining sector in Asia and Africa.
Rhodium easily for gold replacement. Also, best kind of relay that i know of is wet relay, but mercury is forbiden in some countries.
I remember when Lithium was only used for over-heated manic/depressive minds. Worked; too well.
But now ALL our batteries contain Lithium. OK, not yet my outdoor thermometer, or my main car-starter, but all my cellphones, half my cameras, all my good flashlights. In DIY? here, and similar every week. (Cobalt seems more implicated for child labor; Lithium seems to be an adult process.)
Good point. For rechargeable batteries, NiMH batteries are an alternative if weight doesn't matter much. They are also less prone to go up in fire.
Sorry for the bluntness but then the trivial solution can come from NOT buying 1 gram of mica from India, period.
IF Indian factories need it (no doubt many do), then let them ONLY buy mica from one of the 7 largest suppliers, where there is NO child labour,
Same with Madagascar.
Or to be 100% safe, buy Argentine mica.
No child labour here, period.
ALL children from 0 to18 y.o. get a "Universal assignation per child", IF parents (or single parent) is unemployed OR works but unregistered so a Family gets LESS money if children work anywhere.
Best way to attack child labour was not appealing to the heart but to the pocket.
Kids are also forced to go to school and get needed vaccinations or no cigar either, monthly assignation is paid only if vccination papers are shown and a school signed voucher too.
IF Indian factories need it (no doubt many do), then let them ONLY buy mica from one of the 7 largest suppliers, where there is NO child labour,
Same with Madagascar.
Or to be 100% safe, buy Argentine mica.
No child labour here, period.
ALL children from 0 to18 y.o. get a "Universal assignation per child", IF parents (or single parent) is unemployed OR works but unregistered so a Family gets LESS money if children work anywhere.
Best way to attack child labour was not appealing to the heart but to the pocket.
Kids are also forced to go to school and get needed vaccinations or no cigar either, monthly assignation is paid only if vccination papers are shown and a school signed voucher too.
It also depends on how you define "child". Under 18?
Here; you can legally work in certain places from the age of 14, although you must be 18 to work in a mine.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/minimum-age-work
Here; you can legally work in certain places from the age of 14, although you must be 18 to work in a mine.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/minimum-age-work
mica capacitors are the most stable ever. A long time ago glass dielectric caps were also used in pacemakers. low cap values though and only through hole. Dubilier is probably a more than 100 years old brand of mica capacitors.
If you want to know the details, please look up the report I referred to in post #6. You can find it on internet.
Hi. This is in no way to belittle the problem of child labour if used within the Mica industry but I would ask what those families would do otherwise to support themselves? I have seen films of child waste tip scavenging such as this, I'm sure that other examples exist:-
It's impossible to place ourselves into a situation where we would find that acceptable is it not?
An answer, to me at least is for the developed world to help build in cooperation with local governments/companies, industries in the third world to support first world products. Production using locally sourced materials, Automobile interiors, Carpets, housing products, environmentally clean recycling industries etc. Anything with high labour input relative to final cost. It may also help maintain peoples within their national locations and give an alternative to slave labour, assist in schooling and self support.
Just my 2d's worth.
It's impossible to place ourselves into a situation where we would find that acceptable is it not?
An answer, to me at least is for the developed world to help build in cooperation with local governments/companies, industries in the third world to support first world products. Production using locally sourced materials, Automobile interiors, Carpets, housing products, environmentally clean recycling industries etc. Anything with high labour input relative to final cost. It may also help maintain peoples within their national locations and give an alternative to slave labour, assist in schooling and self support.
Just my 2d's worth.
dreamth
Not wanting to start an argument, but..
"Way too dangerous topic to respond to...I don't need a ban..."
So, other than by inference attempting to influence others not to contribute, what was the purpose of your post?
I am more than happy to abide by the rules of DIYA and would always cede to the wishes of the moderators who I feel do an admirable job.
Not wanting to start an argument, but..
"Way too dangerous topic to respond to...I don't need a ban..."
So, other than by inference attempting to influence others not to contribute, what was the purpose of your post?
I am more than happy to abide by the rules of DIYA and would always cede to the wishes of the moderators who I feel do an admirable job.
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darenth
Thank you for your honest thoughtful reply, I do appreciate it. Taking your advice I will say no more on the matter.
Best wishes to you. I do hope though that others feel that they can speak their minds as they see fit within the rules of DIYA.
I will apologise to anyone here who is upset or offended by anything I have posted.
Thank you for your honest thoughtful reply, I do appreciate it. Taking your advice I will say no more on the matter.
Best wishes to you. I do hope though that others feel that they can speak their minds as they see fit within the rules of DIYA.
I will apologise to anyone here who is upset or offended by anything I have posted.
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I am specifically talking about a very focused Child help plan. not the decision of one or another Party so no "politics" involved of the quarreling kind, it´s simply a National Law, approved in Congress , which everybody must obey it, period.
This text mentions "2009"; please don´t think it appeared out of the blue in that year, it´s simply the latest version; in its original form it has been running since the early 50s, when Argentina jumped into Industrialization after WW2 and Korean war, as mentioned inside text it replaces earlier ones.
Cutpaste opening text from: https://repositorio.cepal.org/bitstream/handle/11362/37424/1/RVI113Maurizio_en.pdf
CEPAL is the United Nations Economic Comission for Latin America, obviously well above local Parties, so again not "politics"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Economic_Commission_for_Latin_America_and_the_Caribbean
Here they study a worrying problem: Child Support is so good (in Argentina), both in cash and in services and other help (free bus tickets, discounted fuel and food, etc.) that in practice, having 4 or more kids under 18, makes unemployed parents less interested in finding a formal job, go figure.
Not sure any other Country goes that deep.
Here is he first paragraph of tha CEPAL Academic study, and of course defines child age and applicability, also conditions to get it, mainly sending kids to school and keeping mandatory vaccinations up to date:
116 C E P A L R E V I E W 1 1 3 • A U G U S T 2 0 1 4
ARGENTINA: IMPACTS OF THE CHILD ALLOWANCE PROGRAMME ON THE LABOUR-MARKET BEHAVIOUR OF ADULTS •
ROXANA MAURIZIO AND GUSTAVO VÁZQUEZ
In 2009 Argentina implemented a major cash transfer
programme for children and adolescents called Universal
Child Allowance for Social Protection (AUH, Asignación
Universal por Hijo para Protección Social), which
extended the coverage of the contributory family allowance
programme to new segments of the population.
The AUH is a monthly cash transfer paid to a
parent, guardian or relative (up to the third degree of
consanguinity) for each child under 18 years of age.
In the case of children with disabilities, the age limit
is not applicable. The AUH is a semi-conditional cash
transfer: 80% of its value is paid on a monthly basis
to the beneficiary, and the remaining 20% is deposited
into a savings account in their name. The latter sum
may be withdrawn once the beneficiary has provided
evidence of school attendance and medical check-ups.
AUH beneficiaries may not claim any other social benefit
provided by the national government, by provincial or
municipal governments or by the Autonomous City
of Buenos Aires, and all earlier programmes targeting
similar groups were phased out.
Several studies conducted ex-ante evaluations
simulating the impact of the AUH on inequality, poverty
and extreme poverty indicators.1 They all arrive at the
conclusion that, once the entire target population has
been reached, AUH implementation would significantly
reduce indigence and, to a lesser extent, poverty, while
also having a positive effect on inequality. Nevertheless,
these studies do not take into account the possible impact
of these transfers on adults’ decisions to work and on
the number of hours they work.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
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There's barely any chance that anyone here will feel offended by anything linked to child labour...it's just about the forum rules that apply to most of us...If you're not amongst the chosen ones....
I never thought that Finland is the 3rd largest producer of mica. Absolutely no child labour in Finnish mines but environmental issues are another concern especially since most of the mining companies come from abroad. They take the minerals and leave the mess behind which is made possible by the lax legislation in Finland.
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