Hi guys!
I need help with many things.
I would like to build a LAB horn type subwoofer for my system. I have Dallas II speakers which i made.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...stex-fe206en-and-monocor-ht-958-pa-si.365465/
Im lacking of good pounchy bass.Speakers are working hevenly but i miss the power of bass.Idea is to build something to fill that emptyness.
I have 2 10" Eminence Delta 10B and i have lucky and find used,excelent clean digital power amp with active X over,and LR input.
So idea is to make horn woofer,becuose im in love with with horn sound,with this amp.
I want to make double 10 in one big box becuose,if i understand coretley,bigger box,bigger opening of horn,bigger sound stage.
So first what i would ask you to help me is to discuss about this woofers,are they good for this project.
Box will play from 150Hz down.
Here are specification for woofer.
https://eminence.com/products/delta_10b#specifications
Second big thing where i need help is with design.
I would like to make box which is 550mm deep and 1300mm long,and hight is not defined.It can be up to 1000mm.
Mouth is on surface 1300 x hight.
I like this design,in my case just rotate them for 90 degrese and make it double but with one spiral and one mouth.
https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/my-lab-12-bass-horn-project.85634/
But,i dont have knowledge to calculate and make design by myself.So i humble ask for your help and idea,suggestion...
Is it posible to make design in that limits and what would be performace of this woofer,how low can it go,...
I need help with many things.
I would like to build a LAB horn type subwoofer for my system. I have Dallas II speakers which i made.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...stex-fe206en-and-monocor-ht-958-pa-si.365465/
Im lacking of good pounchy bass.Speakers are working hevenly but i miss the power of bass.Idea is to build something to fill that emptyness.
I have 2 10" Eminence Delta 10B and i have lucky and find used,excelent clean digital power amp with active X over,and LR input.
So idea is to make horn woofer,becuose im in love with with horn sound,with this amp.
I want to make double 10 in one big box becuose,if i understand coretley,bigger box,bigger opening of horn,bigger sound stage.
So first what i would ask you to help me is to discuss about this woofers,are they good for this project.
Box will play from 150Hz down.
Here are specification for woofer.
https://eminence.com/products/delta_10b#specifications
Second big thing where i need help is with design.
I would like to make box which is 550mm deep and 1300mm long,and hight is not defined.It can be up to 1000mm.
Mouth is on surface 1300 x hight.
I like this design,in my case just rotate them for 90 degrese and make it double but with one spiral and one mouth.
https://www.hometheatershack.com/threads/my-lab-12-bass-horn-project.85634/
But,i dont have knowledge to calculate and make design by myself.So i humble ask for your help and idea,suggestion...
Is it posible to make design in that limits and what would be performace of this woofer,how low can it go,...
Not great, as the Delta 10B Fs is high and displacement is low, Xmax is only 3.5mm compared to 13mm for a LAB12.
For bass horns, the bigger, the better. That size is about 650 liters, not very big for a FLH if you want decent output down to 41 Hz, the low E on a four string bass.
This simulation should be foldable into a spiral of about the dimensions you suggest, and hit around 117dB without any room gain:
Minimum impedance is about 6 ohms at 46Hz, around 100 watts at 24 volts to reach Xmax. A HP filter at around 35Hz would keep excursion reasonable down low.
From 60-150 Hz a few watts should thump your chest.
Art
Yes,i realize this,so i sell 10s and buy 1 18" Eminence Kappa Pro 18 LFE,which goes way way down.
How will this work in horn and how to construct such horn?
Big big thanks "weltersys" for time and help!
I can't find TS parameters for the Kappa Pro 18 LFE, so can't give you a comparison, other than the obvious- more than double the displacement and cone area would permit around 10 dB more low frequency output.
The "how to" possibilities of horn construction are almost endless..
Its the same as Kappa Pro 18LF-8,only diferrence is that LFE is made for Yamaha and is 4 Ohm,LF-8 is 8 Ohm.
Other parameters are the same.
I uderstand that possibilites are infinite,so maybe i start asking questin after question.
For so big woofer,can i close him from back in seald box or it must have some vent?
Closed from back example
And what do i get if i put chamber before horn like picture above,or if i start with horn directley after woofer,like this?
Vents with the small chamber size available in a typical FLH design primarily reduce thermal buildup, more a concern for PA or DJ use where speakers are run at maximum levels with compressed music. Keeping up with a Dallas II in a home environment probably won't require venting, as the average power will probably only be a few watts.
The first picture has a large throat chamber (VTC, volume of throat chamber in Hornresp) which acts as an acoustic low pass filter, reducing the upper response, also reducing harmonic distortion.
The second example is an "offset" horn loading, which allows simpler construction.
Art
So,if i uderstood good,same thing can be made if you close part of membrane,like Khorn,or LaScala?
And if is so,how to calculate how big opening to make? Or opening can be calculated with horn calculation,so the opening is horn throat?
example...
The reduced area as depicted in the Khorn or LaScala increases the compression ratio, which also increases efficiency, while the enclosed area (VTC) is minimized.
The opening is a compromise on how much stress the cone can withstand at the excursion expected. High ratios at high excursion require very strong cones to withstand the stress without folding up like a taco. Before permanent deformation, the flexing cone will distort badly at high excursion.
A 10/1 ratio would be on the high side, 2/1 fairly low- the example in post #8 somewhere between the two.
Art
I think i will go whit this,maybe to scale Klipsch mesurment to 18" speaker.
Becuose i will use this for home music listening,so speaker will never work on maximun,actually i will just tickle him 🙂
Im thinking about this last days and i wonder if is possible and if anybody use such chamber as low pass filter without electronic low pass filter?
Becuose always is somethig lose and distorded pasing electric komponents,is it possible to connect speaker as fullrange,and whit good calculated throat chamber cut everything you dont want to come out from horn?
Or this is just a scenario for cartoon ?
It has been done, though some stuffing would also be required to get rid of the upper peaks that still pass through, as can be seen in the response of the LABhorn, a 2x12" 45" x45" x 22.5" spiral horn with an acoustical bandpass chamber:
Simulations or calculations tend to ignore the driver's upper "breakup" modes, so you would probably need a lot of trial and error to get a decent response without the use of coils and capacitors or active crossover components.
The amount of work and materials required might end up like a Rube Goldberg cartoon solution.
Tom Danley designed the LABhorn, you may find his comments in post #37 of this thread useful:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/labhorns-finshed-some-initial-measurements.67039/page-2
Yes,and with my experience and knowledge,better not even start.But is interesting idea,to make 2,3,4,5 way system without Xover.
But,leave that for some other time.
Im searching and searching for something what looks like idea which i have in mind.
For now,closest from what i find, is Basshorn "California".
California is with 15" speaker,and have 2 folds,my will probably have just 1 fold but 3 parts,1 & 2 are in line,and 3is conected via 90 degre fold.
What i dont uderstand is how to make fold.
Do i count lenght of fold and where i mesure this lenght?
Or to put it diferntly,is fold part of horn part 2 ,or 3 whatever,or is just connection which does not count?
Im gona make just quick skech of what i have on mind for my box so you can see fold which i need to make.
This should answer your questions, use the "advanced centerline" method:
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/ho...erline-vs-advanced-centerline-method.1489784/
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/ho...erline-vs-advanced-centerline-method.1489784/