I am putting an amplified microphone output into a Zoom H4N recorder. Right now my mic board puts out (+/-) 2V differential into an ADC (I can adjust the feedback resistor) but I want to record the output on the Zoom.
I cannot get a clear answer on what voltage diff the TRS inputs on the Zoom expect, and, of course, the damage limits.
Anyone have this information?
Thanks
Fritz
I cannot get a clear answer on what voltage diff the TRS inputs on the Zoom expect, and, of course, the damage limits.
Anyone have this information?
Thanks
Fritz
from past notes
If you want to feed 'line level' into a Zoom product then you must use the 6.35mm jacks in the middle of the connector.
XLR input is set for microphone level, would need to use a 40-50db pad to reduce the line level down to microphone level and then treat it as a microphone signal
There is NO other way around it. Regardless of the input knob settings, mic level sensitivity is just way too high.
If you want to feed 'line level' into a Zoom product then you must use the 6.35mm jacks in the middle of the connector.
XLR input is set for microphone level, would need to use a 40-50db pad to reduce the line level down to microphone level and then treat it as a microphone signal
There is NO other way around it. Regardless of the input knob settings, mic level sensitivity is just way too high.
Thanks John.
Yes-to my understanding recorders have independent processing for the TRS vs the XLR jacks. And yes the XLRs are for micro/millivolt inputs from the mics.
My microphones are permanently connected to a circuit I make which amplifies them upto to (+/-)2V adjustable. So they are more like an instrument that is pre-amped and sent to the TRS instead of the XLR. (and no phantom power)
But I am out of my element in commercially-made recorders-the question is--what are the voltage/current limits on their TRS jacks--since they can accept several makes of instruments for example I would think these values are standardized on.
Fritz
Yes-to my understanding recorders have independent processing for the TRS vs the XLR jacks. And yes the XLRs are for micro/millivolt inputs from the mics.
My microphones are permanently connected to a circuit I make which amplifies them upto to (+/-)2V adjustable. So they are more like an instrument that is pre-amped and sent to the TRS instead of the XLR. (and no phantom power)
But I am out of my element in commercially-made recorders-the question is--what are the voltage/current limits on their TRS jacks--since they can accept several makes of instruments for example I would think these values are standardized on.
Fritz
"line level signals"
"-10dB" type was traditionally used by "consumer audio electronics", with earlier gear commonly using 1-2V, later voltages up to 2Vrms with CD and DVD players.
Good professional / studio source / preamp circuits these days often deliver higher than that, say 2.5Vrms or 7V "pk-pk", adequate to allow almost any power amp (within reason, need to watch out for overly sensitive consumer gear) to reach its full power without significant distortion or clipping.
"-10dB" type was traditionally used by "consumer audio electronics", with earlier gear commonly using 1-2V, later voltages up to 2Vrms with CD and DVD players.
Good professional / studio source / preamp circuits these days often deliver higher than that, say 2.5Vrms or 7V "pk-pk", adequate to allow almost any power amp (within reason, need to watch out for overly sensitive consumer gear) to reach its full power without significant distortion or clipping.
Professional-level balanced signals, like what’s used in recording studios, typically have a voltage of around 2.83V. This is the output of your audio interface.
Consumer-level non-balanced signals are typically between 0.7V and 2V. Because the pro-grade signals are hotter, you always want to make sure the amps on your monitors are set to a lower sensitivity, such as +4 dBu, when working with professional-level balanced signals. Note, **lower** sensitivity means, can withstand a higher voltage level, like 2.5Vrms or 7V "pk-pk"
Consumer-level non-balanced signals are typically between 0.7V and 2V. Because the pro-grade signals are hotter, you always want to make sure the amps on your monitors are set to a lower sensitivity, such as +4 dBu, when working with professional-level balanced signals. Note, **lower** sensitivity means, can withstand a higher voltage level, like 2.5Vrms or 7V "pk-pk"
Good stuff and thanks John!
I found my H4N manual and tucked away in very small print is the info you gave me. So using voltages (as this is how my circuits are speced) we have:
Unbalanced
P(w) = 1.6E-3 to 6.3E-7
R = 480000
V = sqrt(P×R) = sqrt(0.0016×480000) = 27.7V
Balanced
P(w) = 1E-4 to −6.3E-8
R = 1000
V = sqrt(P×R) = sqrt(0.0001×1000) = 0.32V
Thus if I used a balanced input I would have to be careful (my 2V vs the zoom 0.32V)
I do have a source of confusion here however-my understanding of the TRS connectors on the zoom is that the tip and ring are used not for stereo but to procure a BALANCED connection. But the manual seems to vaguely imply otherwise. The implication is that their TRS connectors are grounded and not differential.
Fritz
I found my H4N manual and tucked away in very small print is the info you gave me. So using voltages (as this is how my circuits are speced) we have:
Unbalanced
P(w) = 1.6E-3 to 6.3E-7
R = 480000
V = sqrt(P×R) = sqrt(0.0016×480000) = 27.7V
Balanced
P(w) = 1E-4 to −6.3E-8
R = 1000
V = sqrt(P×R) = sqrt(0.0001×1000) = 0.32V
Thus if I used a balanced input I would have to be careful (my 2V vs the zoom 0.32V)
I do have a source of confusion here however-my understanding of the TRS connectors on the zoom is that the tip and ring are used not for stereo but to procure a BALANCED connection. But the manual seems to vaguely imply otherwise. The implication is that their TRS connectors are grounded and not differential.
Fritz
Dunno
another note I dug up
combo jacks on the Zoom 5 and 6 are XLR and 1/4 inch just like on the H4n/H4n Pro. But that the 1/4 inch on the 5/6 (unlike the H4n/H4n Pro) are actual "line in". Whereas on the H4n/H4n Pro they are Hi-Z instrument level.
another note I dug up
combo jacks on the Zoom 5 and 6 are XLR and 1/4 inch just like on the H4n/H4n Pro. But that the 1/4 inch on the 5/6 (unlike the H4n/H4n Pro) are actual "line in". Whereas on the H4n/H4n Pro they are Hi-Z instrument level.
Crikey-We were looking at moving from H4 to H6 so now I have even more to worry about--good catch!
Since the Z for instruments is, to my limited audio knowledge, a couple of meg, I think I am safe with the 2V range if I use the TRS regardless of the device. I guess the obvious thing to do is start at a couple of millivolts (I have a pot on my feedback amp) and creep up watching the input levels.
At least with the specs you sent I now know I am in the ballpark. Still confused why they are using the term "unbalanced" but not being an audio guy maybe it is just thier way of calling the TRS jacks. Electronically my runs are less than a few cm so balance is not an issue regarding noise here. (This is a for a single frequency sonar and rather noise resilient too).
Thanks again
Fritz
Since the Z for instruments is, to my limited audio knowledge, a couple of meg, I think I am safe with the 2V range if I use the TRS regardless of the device. I guess the obvious thing to do is start at a couple of millivolts (I have a pot on my feedback amp) and creep up watching the input levels.
At least with the specs you sent I now know I am in the ballpark. Still confused why they are using the term "unbalanced" but not being an audio guy maybe it is just thier way of calling the TRS jacks. Electronically my runs are less than a few cm so balance is not an issue regarding noise here. (This is a for a single frequency sonar and rather noise resilient too).
Thanks again
Fritz
Ha--I guess that is how it happens.
My main connection with audio is recording our orchestra---running from the violin section to my recording setup and back during intermission. My day job is in optics and lasers so moving the spectrum down a few terahertz for present projects has been revealing and learning the new lingo, sometimes daunting.
Thanks for all your kind replies
Fritz
My main connection with audio is recording our orchestra---running from the violin section to my recording setup and back during intermission. My day job is in optics and lasers so moving the spectrum down a few terahertz for present projects has been revealing and learning the new lingo, sometimes daunting.
Thanks for all your kind replies
Fritz