I'm looking at drivers for a budget 3-way (1" tweeter 5" mid 8" bass), I'd like to ask if folks generally spread driver costs equally or does it generally make more sense to skew one's budget toward a specific driver, and if so, would that more likely be the bass, the mid, or the tweeter?
Put another way, has anyone ever designed a speaker where you splurged on one driver in particular?
The reason I'm asking is cause I've seldom heard a budget tweeter that knocked my socks off; there seems to more value to be had with woofers and mids but tweeters not so much.
Put another way, has anyone ever designed a speaker where you splurged on one driver in particular?
The reason I'm asking is cause I've seldom heard a budget tweeter that knocked my socks off; there seems to more value to be had with woofers and mids but tweeters not so much.
In a 3-way build typically the mid is where I spend the most time and attention, and probably money (though money isn't always the primary issue). Woofer is usually chosen next and needs to keep up with the mid depending on where it is crossed.
The tweeter is usually not as critical as most 3 ways will cross at a point where most reasonably built and priced tweeters will do a good enough job.
The tweeter is usually not as critical as most 3 ways will cross at a point where most reasonably built and priced tweeters will do a good enough job.
I tend to cherry-pick drivers for a given design and then match to the total budget to arrive at the chosen drivers.
Really: its the design that drives the driver selection.
If it's a 1" tweeter to a 5" mid. then I'd look to the lower freq. extension of the *tweeter and its non-linear performance. (..I'm not really concerned about the 5" mid. to the 8" midbass - because most 5" drivers have suitable low freq. extension.)
*and in conjunction with any waveguide if available.
In that context I want that added performance of the tweeter because of the 5" driver's polar response that starts to beam around 2 kHz (..and I want a tweeter that will extend lower in freq. to accommodate that 5"), and I'm willing to pay more (or add a waveguide to a specific tweeter) to achieve that; while spending less on the other drivers. (..I also cut-into tweeter face-plates to push the tweeter as close to the midrange as possible.)
HOWEVER, I don't really consider most 5" drivers "midrange" driver-worthy: I want smaller diameter driver's for the mid.. with 4.5" (including frame) being about the largest in most situations.
ALSO in that design-context: I typically "target" a midbass-midrange crossover near 300-400 Hz with respect to both baffle-step loss/compensation and notably - floor bounce. This means that with most designs I don't need much low freq. extension/linear excursion potential for the mid. - and that usually allows for preferable smaller midrange drivers. (..in fact I'll design the baffle-width/length to accommodate that high-pass for the mid. with a good net result that doesn't rely on lots of crossover parts.)
Really: its the design that drives the driver selection.
If it's a 1" tweeter to a 5" mid. then I'd look to the lower freq. extension of the *tweeter and its non-linear performance. (..I'm not really concerned about the 5" mid. to the 8" midbass - because most 5" drivers have suitable low freq. extension.)
*and in conjunction with any waveguide if available.
In that context I want that added performance of the tweeter because of the 5" driver's polar response that starts to beam around 2 kHz (..and I want a tweeter that will extend lower in freq. to accommodate that 5"), and I'm willing to pay more (or add a waveguide to a specific tweeter) to achieve that; while spending less on the other drivers. (..I also cut-into tweeter face-plates to push the tweeter as close to the midrange as possible.)
HOWEVER, I don't really consider most 5" drivers "midrange" driver-worthy: I want smaller diameter driver's for the mid.. with 4.5" (including frame) being about the largest in most situations.
ALSO in that design-context: I typically "target" a midbass-midrange crossover near 300-400 Hz with respect to both baffle-step loss/compensation and notably - floor bounce. This means that with most designs I don't need much low freq. extension/linear excursion potential for the mid. - and that usually allows for preferable smaller midrange drivers. (..in fact I'll design the baffle-width/length to accommodate that high-pass for the mid. with a good net result that doesn't rely on lots of crossover parts.)
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I would think a 4" mid would be more appropriate with an 8" woofer, and a 22mm tweeter would be more than enough in this application.
I think the woofer and mid should have more weight in the smaller three-way applications. For instance, I used a 2" dome ($80) mid and a planar tweeter ($40), along with a clean enough woofer ($95) that could play low and clean as well as high enough to meet the mid. Sometimes, the usage dictates the means.
Later,
Wolf
I think the woofer and mid should have more weight in the smaller three-way applications. For instance, I used a 2" dome ($80) mid and a planar tweeter ($40), along with a clean enough woofer ($95) that could play low and clean as well as high enough to meet the mid. Sometimes, the usage dictates the means.
Later,
Wolf
I agree it's very case depending. I know good tweeters i can get for 40€ (SB), and typically the woofer is where the most money goes to, but it can be reverse also. A cheap setup could be an SB26ADC tweeter (46€), an Dayton RS100P mid (43€) and an Dayton RS225-8 woofer (90€). That would cost you +/- 180€ per side for drivers down here...
I'd say: define 'budget'. A 3-way will set you back on the crossover. I think it's perfectly possible to stay around €100 per side on drivers (8-4/5-1") and reaching near perfect quality, but that Xover easily does another €100. So there is a tradeoff, more so as smaller 2-way designs (8-1" with waveguide) will compete in sound quality.
Wrt your remark about cheap tweeters: I doubt if your evaluation was based on the tweeter response alone. A Peerless DX25TG09-04 does a stellar job if you count in the price. But if the crossover to the (bass)mid wasn't properly executed or the enclosure not that well-thought, good performance is ruined easily.
Wrt your remark about cheap tweeters: I doubt if your evaluation was based on the tweeter response alone. A Peerless DX25TG09-04 does a stellar job if you count in the price. But if the crossover to the (bass)mid wasn't properly executed or the enclosure not that well-thought, good performance is ruined easily.
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For me, a Dayton RS125 8 ohm and a Seas DXT, works great on top of two 8" mid woofers 🙂
I might consider a RS150 4 ohm, to raise sensitivity a bit. But I don't really need it that much in an active system.
Very clear, open, transparent - and with the good directivity from a wave guided system. I also sense a much better stereo perspective. Seems like the voice from movies and any other speech related playback, like youtube reviews, the sound seems to come directly from the tv and I almost forget that I have speakers.
I might consider a RS150 4 ohm, to raise sensitivity a bit. But I don't really need it that much in an active system.
Very clear, open, transparent - and with the good directivity from a wave guided system. I also sense a much better stereo perspective. Seems like the voice from movies and any other speech related playback, like youtube reviews, the sound seems to come directly from the tv and I almost forget that I have speakers.
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In my builds, it depends on what the parts are required to do
For example, I built a 2.5 way 4 woofer horizontal center channel--I required a 90+dB minimum efficiency dome tweeter that could do 1850Hz XO and do some seriously high output as the 4 woofers could crank out the SPL
Spent some big bucks on a 30mm Wavcor tweeter and it worked very well. The XO was rather complex which added even more cost. Heck, the tweeter and XO cost more than the 4 mid-woofers! To do it right cost what it costs, same holds true with most things be it tools, materals and even speakers.
If you demand a performance of X and that costs $200 in parts--it really don't matter if your budget is $500 or $120... You either have to change your demands/design if the juice is not worth the squeeze or resist just throwing money at a design "to be sure".
Hope that helps
For example, I built a 2.5 way 4 woofer horizontal center channel--I required a 90+dB minimum efficiency dome tweeter that could do 1850Hz XO and do some seriously high output as the 4 woofers could crank out the SPL
Spent some big bucks on a 30mm Wavcor tweeter and it worked very well. The XO was rather complex which added even more cost. Heck, the tweeter and XO cost more than the 4 mid-woofers! To do it right cost what it costs, same holds true with most things be it tools, materals and even speakers.
If you demand a performance of X and that costs $200 in parts--it really don't matter if your budget is $500 or $120... You either have to change your demands/design if the juice is not worth the squeeze or resist just throwing money at a design "to be sure".
Hope that helps
I think the dollar-range of "near perfect" in this size class is likely closer to $150-250/side.
Closer to perfection or state State of the Art (SotA), however:
Say you want a Hiquphon, $130. Many consider this one of the best.
Depending on your preference, the SB Satori MR13, Excel W15/W12, or SS 12U/15W are still high on lists. That's basically $150-350 price range.
Dayton RSS210H0-8 in parallel for the woofer range is close to $300/pair. A single RSS210HF-4 is less than half that if you can deal with the lower sensitivity.
Still- I would not call $700/pair in drivers outlandish in terms of performance, and anything over $500/channel starts the diminishing returns sector for DIY (unless multiples, larger drivers, or higher sensitivities are an endgame). There are drivers that perform really well, and are very expensive, however, there are usually lesser costing drivers that can be had for half the cost that get 80% of the more expensive versions.
There are so many ways to evaluate drivers out there, but many are very good for very little outlay.
Wolf
Closer to perfection or state State of the Art (SotA), however:
Say you want a Hiquphon, $130. Many consider this one of the best.
Depending on your preference, the SB Satori MR13, Excel W15/W12, or SS 12U/15W are still high on lists. That's basically $150-350 price range.
Dayton RSS210H0-8 in parallel for the woofer range is close to $300/pair. A single RSS210HF-4 is less than half that if you can deal with the lower sensitivity.
Still- I would not call $700/pair in drivers outlandish in terms of performance, and anything over $500/channel starts the diminishing returns sector for DIY (unless multiples, larger drivers, or higher sensitivities are an endgame). There are drivers that perform really well, and are very expensive, however, there are usually lesser costing drivers that can be had for half the cost that get 80% of the more expensive versions.
There are so many ways to evaluate drivers out there, but many are very good for very little outlay.
Wolf