small speaker driver for a T-line any suggestions ?

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ligoli puschkin

Member
Joined 2021
#1
Hi,
I´m still looking for a suitable driver unit, the ons i considerd soo far are:
TEBM35C10
View attachment TEBM35C10-4_Rev-1.8.pdf
TA6FD00-04/08
View attachment Peerless_TA6FD00-08.pdf//View attachment Peerless_TA6FD00-04.pdf
Wuld be interested on your opinion on this drivers for use in a t-line desing.


And now my final request, do you have any suggestions wich driver i shuld use//consider the driver shuld be able to be mounted on a 65*65mm surface.


thanks in advance, Any input is much appreciated
have a nice day
 
#6
While i was browsing the Internet i found these speakers wich look like worthy candidats for my build.
I went ahed and did some simulations in Hornresp in order to fiuger out wich ons are better suited for my use case. I markd the ons I consider using in my desing with ! (additional info)

TEBM35C10 !
(70dB@100Hz)

Peerless PSL-P830970 !
(75dB@100Hz)

TangBand W2-2136S! and W2-2181S!
(85dB@100Hz; difficult to source)

Peerless TA6FD00-08! and the 04 ohm version
(75dB@100Hz; difficult to source)

SB65WBAC25-4 !
(80dB@70Hz; might be difficult to achive a "flat" response curve)

Dayton Audio ND65-4 !
(verry difficult to achive a "flat" respone curve, but 80dB @65Hz)

Celestion AN2075 (not the best sim result and expensive)
ScanSpeak 5F-8422T01 (to expensive)
Dayton Audio DMA58-8 (not suitable)
Monacor SPX-20M (to little Xmax for me)


I build 3 t-lines bevore but all i did was calculating the "port" length😀.

Now i got more into the details of building one and there fore i got familiar with Hornresp, but while i was simulating the drivers above i noticed that the "Filling" apparently is not considered in the final Acoustical Power sim calculation.


I wonder if im doing something wrong?😕
Is there some Application wich is better suited fore this cind of simulation?
I know ther are MJK MathCad worksheets but i wasent able to find them(i found something but it reqired a Username and pin)😱.


if somene know´s more then me please tell me


thanks for all your repys so far
 
#7
ligoli puschkin said:
while i was simulating the drivers above i noticed that the "Filling" apparently is not considered in the final Acoustical Power sim calculation.
Click to expand...

You're welcome!

??? Filling is only shown in the Wizard [where you want to do the designing] plus lists how much in Kg. on the Schematic when the Filling Option is shown.

MJK's MathCad software has been unavailable for many years now and Hornresp has advanced to the point where TTBOMK only his room interaction features makes it superior, so considering all the extra speaker alignments that HR can do than his and that he quit developing except for himself and maybe a few others, you'll have to learn AkAbak to do it all.
 
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#8
What kind of TL? A MLTL or a tapered PMC style TL? Or a labyrinth type? There are so many designs already tested and working.


The Tabaq thread has many drivers in the 3in class. And another one is the Mini Karlsonator. That works well with many 3in or 3.5in drivers like TC9FD or 3FE25 or TB W3-xxxx.
 
#10
GM said:
You're welcome!

??? Filling is only shown in the Wizard [where you want to do the designing] plus lists how much in Kg. on the Schematic when the Filling Option is shown.

MJK's MathCad software has been unavailable for many years now and Hornresp has advanced to the point where TTBOMK only his room interaction features makes it superior, so considering all the extra speaker alignments that HR can do than his and that he quit developing except for himself and maybe a few others, you'll have to learn AkAbak to do it all.
Click to expand...


The reason why i always hit calculating in the end of HR is that in the speaker Wizard the sim only goes to 2kHz, while "calculating" doas go to 20kHz. But i guess sim´s with dampening/Filling are restricted to 2kHz only😕, sice i wasent able to figure out how to change the sim spectrum.



Looks like im going to learn how to use AkAbak since it seems to be the supirior tool plus it can do fancy coulerd sim´s😀.
what means CSA



xrk971 said:
What kind of TL? A MLTL or a tapered PMC style TL? Or a labyrinth type? There are so many designs already tested and working.
Click to expand...


I guess im going with a labyrinth type since i my desing only allows for parralel walls; mayby MLTL is an option as well depending if only the verry last part of the "port" is smaller then the rest of the parralel port. But i guess further sim´s in AkAbak will bring an awnser to this question.



I´m limeted to 2/2,5 since my desing is suposed to be portable/battary-powerd as well, and overall size goes rapidly up by driver size. But im going to take a look on those Threads as well, there is probably something to learn for me.🙂


thanks for all the support and have a nice day,
 
#12
Did you try the loudspeaker database?
Click to expand...
Yes i did,
I have a feeling that one of the drivers markd with ! is going to be in the final desing.
I think that those offer the best trade offs for output vs. size. if you look at the speakers in the TABAQ Thread, like those are way to big. Im trying to fit everything into a DIN4-paper (21*29 cm).
for now i gatta figure out how AkAbak works, any suggestions whre to start?
 
#13
ligoli puschkin said:
The reason why i always hit calculating in the end of HR is that in the speaker Wizard the sim only goes to 2kHz, while "calculating" doas go to 20kHz.

what means CSA

for now i gatta figure out how AkAbak works, any suggestions whre to start?
Click to expand...

You're welcome!

Only in that above the driver's upper mass corner [Fhm]* where T/S theory peters out it's strictly based on its inputted inductance.

Cross sectional area, i.e. width x depth.

You've a bunch to choose from 😉: AkAbak for dummies - Google Search

* upper: Fhm = 2*Fs/Qts'

lower: Flc = Fs*Qts'/2 [normally never used]

Qts': 2*Fs/Fhm

[Qts']: [Qts] + any added series resistance [Rs]: Calculate new Qts with Series Resistor

[Rs] = 0.5 ohm minimum for wiring, so may be higher if a super small gauge is used as a series resistor plus any added resistance from an XO/whatever.
 
#14
How can HR know the performance of the driver above 2k, yet alone, above 200 for what matters?

Having a nice flat FR up to 20kHz in HR will mean absolutely nothing.

Another app for designing TL is LeonardAudioTransmissionLine. LATL.
It’s discontinued but still works well, except the filling part, where it is subpar to HR.
 
#17
I got Akabak installd, but it´s quite a time conuming software (im not sure if i´m going to commit the time investment to lern it).



Is HR genneraly useless when it comes to predicting the SPL-of a cabinet?😕


Having a nice flat FR up to 20kHz in HR will mean absolutely nothing.
Click to expand...


because of this ?


as far as i culd follow you tow, it predicts spl- in acordance of le and sd and doas so reliably only in the lower freqencis(determant by Fhm//Flc)?


but culd it still serve as a indicator on wich driver is better suited? (if its just abaut le and sd probably not)



Is it actualy possible to sim a t-line in a meaning full way in any Software?
=> can LATL do meaning full sims


If this whole calculating thing gets out of hand i´ll just start building some and tweak my way from thre😛.
 
#19
Welcome to the 'club'! 😉 Life's too short for lots of us DIYers, though historically is the basis of many [most?] manufacturer's speaker design software.

Fhm........

Absolutely!

At best, LATL is no better and mostly not, though at one time [much] easier overall to use; now, not so much for basic speaker alignments since one can 'slide' to an optimized alignment in minutes with the Wizard and of course once one gets familiar with its horn design options, this too makes HR the overall 'no brainer' [obvious] choice for the avid DIYer.

A good plan as too often I've seen 'newbies' [beginners] 'circle the drain' agonizing over minutiae when down low a +/- 10% in box volume, tuning is acceptable due to our poor hearing acuity, room modes dominating, so IME better spent dealing with the latter and only then adjust the speaker's tuning as required.
 
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#20
ligoli, trying to simulate the full range of FR is quite the exercise.

You could use HR to simulate the low end, the, using GM’s calculations, find where the sim becomes irrelevant.
Then, move to a sim like Basta or Edge, to find the effects of the baffle and driver placement.
Finally, adding the measured response of the driver, it’s baffle effects, and it’s tuned low end, import all of that into REW to simulate the response in a place similar to your room dimensions.
Also taking into account that different materials on the floor and walls, plus the added furniture in the room will change the resulting sim as well.

That should be the closest full sim you could expect.

Sounds like fun! 🙂

PS. Most of us stop after finding a well behaved driver candidate for the enclosure, tuning of the low end and baffle step calculations in Edge.
Then you build. Measure as best as you can, and find if you need a notch to tame some peak or hill that might be annoying in the FR.
Finally, enjoy listening to your new creation!
 
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