I'm talking from the pleasure-seeking lizard brain side of me and not the practical or rational side.
If you could get a good deal on a F8 (closer to 3 than 4k), and you cared about enjoyment and the sound at a few watts, would you hesitate?
I have a new McIntosh MC275, and that is it's thing. I have a pair of 3-way Sonus Faber towers that can take everything that amp provides and way more (including a 200x2 McIntosh SS amp), but also have a pair of 4" FR driver speakers and very much interested in those, but also considering things like the Zu Dirty Weekends.
I live in a townhouse and cannot to nuclear on what I listen to. Anything over about 5 watts (if I go my the meters on the McIntosh SS amp) is starting to be loud and a little anti-social.
Or...would I be better off with a XA25...or would that be boring compared to the F8?
Thanks!
If you could get a good deal on a F8 (closer to 3 than 4k), and you cared about enjoyment and the sound at a few watts, would you hesitate?
I have a new McIntosh MC275, and that is it's thing. I have a pair of 3-way Sonus Faber towers that can take everything that amp provides and way more (including a 200x2 McIntosh SS amp), but also have a pair of 4" FR driver speakers and very much interested in those, but also considering things like the Zu Dirty Weekends.
I live in a townhouse and cannot to nuclear on what I listen to. Anything over about 5 watts (if I go my the meters on the McIntosh SS amp) is starting to be loud and a little anti-social.
Or...would I be better off with a XA25...or would that be boring compared to the F8?
Thanks!
The dealer should let you try the used F8 at home for a period of time, to see if it is compatible
with your speakers. The amp does have certain limitations. If it does not work with them,
you should be able to return it for a full refund, not just store credit, since it is already used.
The dealer is likely to be making as much money selling you the used F8 as he would selling
a new F8, since it was a trade-in. The 20% or so off the list price when the F8 is used is
not that great a deal. And does it still have the factory warranty?
with your speakers. The amp does have certain limitations. If it does not work with them,
you should be able to return it for a full refund, not just store credit, since it is already used.
The dealer is likely to be making as much money selling you the used F8 as he would selling
a new F8, since it was a trade-in. The 20% or so off the list price when the F8 is used is
not that great a deal. And does it still have the factory warranty?
Thanks. Of course you cannot tell me if I will like the sound or not. Just thinking out loud. It's intriguing to have a SS amp like this, maybe tube like sound but with more power and no tube drama, something I don't have to worry about.
Semi related. Is there a limited life on an amp like this due to the heat?
Semi related. Is there a limited life on an amp like this due to the heat?
Caps wil have there limits. And sooner or later the outputs will se the end of there life. But we are talking 10-15 years for caps And 20+ years for outputs.
In theory, high temperatures decrease reliability and reduce the useful lifetime of electrolytic capacitors,
resistors, and even semiconductors. Extreme and frequent thermal cycling is also a similar problem.
However, First Watt amps have a good record for reliability, especially compared to many tube amps.
resistors, and even semiconductors. Extreme and frequent thermal cycling is also a similar problem.
However, First Watt amps have a good record for reliability, especially compared to many tube amps.
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Well caps can be replaced...those old Tosh parts maybe not.
Yeah, I have to trust the engineering to make sure the parts are not running hotter than is OK and fizzling out after 10,000 hours or the like.
Yeah, I have to trust the engineering to make sure the parts are not running hotter than is OK and fizzling out after 10,000 hours or the like.
Rayma...my pause is more about hearing the statement the Firstwatt amps need to be matched to speakers based on their impedance curve or the like vs. the sound itself. Not sure how true that is.
"The internet" says a Pass amp works universally well on anything but a Firstwatt only works well on certain speakers. Maybe that's BS.
"The internet" says a Pass amp works universally well on anything but a Firstwatt only works well on certain speakers. Maybe that's BS.
The F8 has a rated damping factor of 40, so that should not be a cause of any problems
with various speakers. But the low power (25W) could be, especially into 4 ohms (15W).
That's pretty good for a single ended amp though. You'd have to try it out to be sure.
with various speakers. But the low power (25W) could be, especially into 4 ohms (15W).
That's pretty good for a single ended amp though. You'd have to try it out to be sure.
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Well. ALL amps needs too be matched with the right speakers, preamps and source. and the right room and the right ear. That is not a spescial pass/first watt thing.
those tosh parts can even be replaced to day. by LSK170/LSJ74. and there will ALLWAYS be a fet that you can use. its often a matter of taste.
those tosh parts can even be replaced to day. by LSK170/LSJ74. and there will ALLWAYS be a fet that you can use. its often a matter of taste.
I can get a MC312 or MC462 at cost so watts will never be a concern for me. Even using the MC275 for watts is already on my rack. My concern is something utterly enjoyable and alive at lower levels I can listen to all day. As I type this I'm listening to music on a 2.3 watt Decware UFO and not exactly maxing it out so increasing the power 10x at 8 ohms is very much meaningful.
After trying the VFET there is no question F8 is what I would pick. It's a linear audio-type amp and if you never tried it you probably should. The xa25 does not look to be true end2end balanced (based on the RCA-only inputs) and that takes it out of the competition for me. I think the xa30.x is much better.
It is not about the power but about the second vs third harmonic.
It is not about the power but about the second vs third harmonic.
Xa25 is a push-pull class A amp with a single-ended input. It can supply a lot of current and drive anything. It sounds extremely open, fast and natural. Nelson conservatively spec-ed it at something like 50W (at very low distortions), but the amp will deliver much much more. I suggest you do a listening test before deciding on anything else. It is a very special amp - with single transistors (2) working in the output stage, and no source/drain resistors -> with a fantastic damping factor. Do a bit of research to see its many benefits... and the root cause of Nelson's approach to removing those resistors in the first place. It has a sophisticated power supply as well - it is in a different class (using class in the context of class A amplifier can be confusing🙂) - different league altogether, compared to F8.
However, you, personally, may like F8 better.... listen to both and then decide.
I’ve listened to xa25 at several audio shows and I preferred it to xa30.8. Which sonus faber you have?
Another thing, you are in a very good position as you are considering an actual PL amp. From my saddest experience all our DIY attempts/clones sound not quite as good as the real deal... close, but we are missing some “magic” factory PL and FW amps have. I think 30.8 or xa25 are great amps and you will not be disappointed. Personally, I’d get one of those and maybe consider making or getting DIY FW amp for your taste. AJ is great, F6 is nice and list goes on...
Another thing, you are in a very good position as you are considering an actual PL amp. From my saddest experience all our DIY attempts/clones sound not quite as good as the real deal... close, but we are missing some “magic” factory PL and FW amps have. I think 30.8 or xa25 are great amps and you will not be disappointed. Personally, I’d get one of those and maybe consider making or getting DIY FW amp for your taste. AJ is great, F6 is nice and list goes on...
oh yes, you will regret, deeply!
case 1 - you bought it, and you don't like it - either generally or you don't like result with sole speakers you have appropriate to use with them
case 2 - you bought it, you like it , then you regret that you spent all these years chasing rainbow with overrated nice looking drek speakers .......... will stop there - will either hurt someone's feelings, or will get sued
case 3. suddenly you realize that 25W of F8 power wonderly is enough for your nice looking drek speakers, and that you wasted all these years chasing rainbow with that xmasstreelooking amp
whatever - future is painted in Rose - take F8, take some nice efficient and sensitive speakers, sell everything you did mention that you already have
yes, I'm biased
case 1 - you bought it, and you don't like it - either generally or you don't like result with sole speakers you have appropriate to use with them
case 2 - you bought it, you like it , then you regret that you spent all these years chasing rainbow with overrated nice looking drek speakers .......... will stop there - will either hurt someone's feelings, or will get sued
case 3. suddenly you realize that 25W of F8 power wonderly is enough for your nice looking drek speakers, and that you wasted all these years chasing rainbow with that xmasstreelooking amp
whatever - future is painted in Rose - take F8, take some nice efficient and sensitive speakers, sell everything you did mention that you already have
yes, I'm biased
The SIT 3 will be compatible with a wider range of speakers.
If you were worried about compatibility, the SIT 3 will be a safer bet.
If you were worried about compatibility, the SIT 3 will be a safer bet.