Hi diyAudio community
This is my first thread, I've read a lot of other threads on here but have finally worked up the courage to begin my journey into building my first set of DIY 3-way monitor/listening speakers. Firstly, I'm from Cape Town, South Africa so I'm looking to import parts from Europe somewhere most probably since nobody stocks what I'm looking for here.
Here are some details about what I'm thinking of building:
- Near- / Midfield
- Integrated amp for each side
- Some sort of audio management
- 3-way speaker layout
- tweeter: ??? amt?
- mids: ??? 4"?
- woofers: ??? 10"
- compact in size
- sealed enclosure - more accurate?
- hits at least 30hz - bonus if its lower
Amplifier
I've been researching and it seems the best option for me is an integrated amp for each side, the Hypex FusionAmp FA253 (Hypex Electronics B.V.).
- integrated class-d amps on each side
- integrated dsp and dac on each side
- Power (4Ω) 2x 250Wrms + 1x 100Wrms or
- Power (8Ω) 2x 150Wrms + 1x 100Wrms
- quite a few input sources
- remote control extra which could be great
I feel like if I buy these they should supply enough power to the drivers, although I could get by with the FA 123 (2x125W + 100W Tweeter) depending on the drivers.
I found out that kjfaudio.com stocks these for a decent price. So will most likely get from them. Wondering what the import costs would be on those since I'm in SA?
Enclosure
I'm planning on building it with composites in the future but will probably start with mdf to prototype the build. The future build out of composites will be some layers strategically sandwiched together utilising the vacuum bagging process. I've got an idea about how to do the layering, but it will take some time to get the shape right before I start that. The size of the box will be determined by the parameters of the drivers I decide to go with of course, but I'm still left wondering what sort of size I should go for since the box is sealed.
I feel like the amps are going to have to be mounted in their own sealed section in the rear of the speaker cabinets so I will have to plan to have some extra space available for that. Anything else I should keep in mind?
Drivers
Now this is the part I'm struggling with. I'm looking at possibly buying drivers from europe-audio.com, anyone have any experience with them? They seem to have a large collection of drivers available which is great, but also not great because of so much choice.
Tweeters:
I'd like to use an amt for the tweeter on each side since they are better at reproducing more accurately with lower distortion, if I've heard correctly. I know there are some nice ones available but I don't have as much capital as I'd like since I'm having to import.
On europe-audio.com they have a few varieties of AMTs - (Tweeters Ribbon | Europe audio). They all seem to be Fountek. Possibly the NeoX3.0?
Mids:
Now it gets more difficult. I think I'd like to pair the tweeters with some 4" midranges. But I'm open to suggestions for other sizes. Currently I think these will give me the most clarity I'm looking for and can also go slightly lower to crossover with the woofer better.
Europe-audio.com have the Scan-Speak Illuminator 4'', from the reviews I've read it sounds like it could work well.
Woofers:
I'm looking forward to using a 10" woofer to hit the low. Hopefully it can reach to 20hz but I feel like that may not be easily possible and most probably draw too much power so I'm thinking of aiming for 30hz. I think that is a bit more realistic considering.
Europe-audio.com has a nice selection of Scan-Speak and Seas speaker drivers, but I'm unsure how to narrow my search here.
The Seas L26RFX/P H1209 could be a good option I think, will this pair nicely with the Scan-Speak Illuminator 4"?
What about the Scan-Speak 26W/4867T00? Would this be better to pair with the Illuminator since they are both Scan-Speak?
Closing thoughts
I know this is going to be a journey, but I'm keen to get started. I'd like to keep this thread updated as I progress through the build so I'll try take lots of photos and document the process.
Please feel free to answer my questions or ask me some. I'm new to this but I feel like I know enough to get started, theoretically anyways.
This is my first thread, I've read a lot of other threads on here but have finally worked up the courage to begin my journey into building my first set of DIY 3-way monitor/listening speakers. Firstly, I'm from Cape Town, South Africa so I'm looking to import parts from Europe somewhere most probably since nobody stocks what I'm looking for here.
Here are some details about what I'm thinking of building:
- Near- / Midfield
- Integrated amp for each side
- Some sort of audio management
- 3-way speaker layout
- tweeter: ??? amt?
- mids: ??? 4"?
- woofers: ??? 10"
- compact in size
- sealed enclosure - more accurate?
- hits at least 30hz - bonus if its lower
Amplifier
I've been researching and it seems the best option for me is an integrated amp for each side, the Hypex FusionAmp FA253 (Hypex Electronics B.V.).
- integrated class-d amps on each side
- integrated dsp and dac on each side
- Power (4Ω) 2x 250Wrms + 1x 100Wrms or
- Power (8Ω) 2x 150Wrms + 1x 100Wrms
- quite a few input sources
- remote control extra which could be great
I feel like if I buy these they should supply enough power to the drivers, although I could get by with the FA 123 (2x125W + 100W Tweeter) depending on the drivers.
I found out that kjfaudio.com stocks these for a decent price. So will most likely get from them. Wondering what the import costs would be on those since I'm in SA?
Enclosure
I'm planning on building it with composites in the future but will probably start with mdf to prototype the build. The future build out of composites will be some layers strategically sandwiched together utilising the vacuum bagging process. I've got an idea about how to do the layering, but it will take some time to get the shape right before I start that. The size of the box will be determined by the parameters of the drivers I decide to go with of course, but I'm still left wondering what sort of size I should go for since the box is sealed.
I feel like the amps are going to have to be mounted in their own sealed section in the rear of the speaker cabinets so I will have to plan to have some extra space available for that. Anything else I should keep in mind?
Drivers
Now this is the part I'm struggling with. I'm looking at possibly buying drivers from europe-audio.com, anyone have any experience with them? They seem to have a large collection of drivers available which is great, but also not great because of so much choice.
Tweeters:
I'd like to use an amt for the tweeter on each side since they are better at reproducing more accurately with lower distortion, if I've heard correctly. I know there are some nice ones available but I don't have as much capital as I'd like since I'm having to import.
On europe-audio.com they have a few varieties of AMTs - (Tweeters Ribbon | Europe audio). They all seem to be Fountek. Possibly the NeoX3.0?
Mids:
Now it gets more difficult. I think I'd like to pair the tweeters with some 4" midranges. But I'm open to suggestions for other sizes. Currently I think these will give me the most clarity I'm looking for and can also go slightly lower to crossover with the woofer better.
Europe-audio.com have the Scan-Speak Illuminator 4'', from the reviews I've read it sounds like it could work well.
Woofers:
I'm looking forward to using a 10" woofer to hit the low. Hopefully it can reach to 20hz but I feel like that may not be easily possible and most probably draw too much power so I'm thinking of aiming for 30hz. I think that is a bit more realistic considering.
Europe-audio.com has a nice selection of Scan-Speak and Seas speaker drivers, but I'm unsure how to narrow my search here.
The Seas L26RFX/P H1209 could be a good option I think, will this pair nicely with the Scan-Speak Illuminator 4"?
What about the Scan-Speak 26W/4867T00? Would this be better to pair with the Illuminator since they are both Scan-Speak?
Closing thoughts
I know this is going to be a journey, but I'm keen to get started. I'd like to keep this thread updated as I progress through the build so I'll try take lots of photos and document the process.
Please feel free to answer my questions or ask me some. I'm new to this but I feel like I know enough to get started, theoretically anyways.
This SEAS kit seems fairly close to your configuration and might provide some guidance.
This is a thread on Europe Audio. Be careful if you choose to deal with them.
An AMT and a ribbon are significantly different kinds of tweeter which will require different crossovers and different optimal midrange drivers. They are also likely to have same-to-higher distortion compared to a dome tweeter, be more expensive and have significantly different directivity. I suspect the topic may need a bit more thought.
This is a thread on Europe Audio. Be careful if you choose to deal with them.
An AMT and a ribbon are significantly different kinds of tweeter which will require different crossovers and different optimal midrange drivers. They are also likely to have same-to-higher distortion compared to a dome tweeter, be more expensive and have significantly different directivity. I suspect the topic may need a bit more thought.
Thanks for the tip on the SEAS kit, I’ll definitely be taking some influence from it.
With regard to where I should buy and import from, would soundimports.eu be better then?
I understand that AMTs and ribbons are very different kinds of tweeters, but since the Hypex plate amps include a DSP in each side - I’ll be able to adjust the crossover as needed. What would I have to look for in a midrange driver to pair with an AMT tweeter? Why would an AMT have the same or higher distortion? I’ve read that they can produce higher frequencies more accurately, im sure they have some drawbacks though. I’m okay with a slightly higher cost - not crazy high though. And directivity wise, I’m happy with a wider horizontal dispersion and less vertical as that will work well in my space.
With regard to where I should buy and import from, would soundimports.eu be better then?
I understand that AMTs and ribbons are very different kinds of tweeters, but since the Hypex plate amps include a DSP in each side - I’ll be able to adjust the crossover as needed. What would I have to look for in a midrange driver to pair with an AMT tweeter? Why would an AMT have the same or higher distortion? I’ve read that they can produce higher frequencies more accurately, im sure they have some drawbacks though. I’m okay with a slightly higher cost - not crazy high though. And directivity wise, I’m happy with a wider horizontal dispersion and less vertical as that will work well in my space.
There is a recent thread with a good discussion on the aspects of using a ribbon (or AMT) tweeter combined with cone midrange drivers. MTM for active 3-way is it good or bad?
A lot of smart people gave input on that thread.
I use the Hypex FA253 and am very happy with it.
A lot of smart people gave input on that thread.
I use the Hypex FA253 and am very happy with it.
From what I see, they are mostly discussing MTM configuration in that thread - didn't see much about ribbon/AMT tweeters.
I'm looking at a design similar to: Type 20 - Heinz Electrodynamic Designs (But try keep the price a bit lower). They utilise an 7.2", 4.7" and an AMT on each side. Seems like their crossover points are 250Hz and 2.5kHz - I was planning on aiming for my crossover to be around 300Hz and 3kHz since AMTs don't go so low.
Okay great, I'm glad someone else has had a positive experience with the FA253 - that will be on my shopping list for sure.
I'm looking at a design similar to: Type 20 - Heinz Electrodynamic Designs (But try keep the price a bit lower). They utilise an 7.2", 4.7" and an AMT on each side. Seems like their crossover points are 250Hz and 2.5kHz - I was planning on aiming for my crossover to be around 300Hz and 3kHz since AMTs don't go so low.
Okay great, I'm glad someone else has had a positive experience with the FA253 - that will be on my shopping list for sure.
Never had much luck combining an amt with a cone mid and having it sound seamless, at least not around a more shallow slope ie. 2nd order LR. Most people aim for the lowest xover point they can get the amt to do, but that tends to make odd order HD become audible. DSP would be another option if thats your cup of tea. I finished some 3 way active mid fields for someone with Speaker Power class D amps and mini dsp using Beyma TPL150s, B&C 8NDL51s and SB 34NRXL75s. Xover points were 200 Hz and 1.3 kHz with minimal FR correction. I wanted to use Volt mid drivers but they were unavailable at the time and a bit too expensive for the budget. I built myself the same recipe except for subbing the TPL150 for Seas T35C002 with WG which sounds more natural to me, but I raised the xover point to 2 kHz. The Seas tweeter easily keeps up with the rest and will play just as loud / clear as the TPL150, but it gels better with the big cone mid.
Ah that’s interesting, well the FA253s have build in DSPs inside so I’ll definitely be able to tweak and adjust post-build. But of course is prefer the least amount of post-processing the better. So would I be better off building waveguides for both the tweeter and the midrange, or rather just crossing over at a higher frequency?
Or maybe I’d be better off with a dome tweeter...
Or maybe I’d be better off with a dome tweeter...
If I had decided on using one of these tweeters so that it became the locus of the design, and had the same question as you about whether to build waveguides, I'd take polar measurements of them on their normal baffle shape (eg flat), in different planes, and try to understand their natural behaviour to see what can be achieved. In any case I'd use that information to design the waveguide.
I'd think the question of midrange could wait until I saw what could be done with the treble.
I'd think the question of midrange could wait until I saw what could be done with the treble.
Just few ideas:
- AMT tweeters: it is quite hard to pair them with cone midranges, what about beryllium domes?
SB Acoustics TW29BN is good and relatively inexpensive, easy to work with and excellent results!. Fountek - I personally do not like it, mainly due to directivity. Vertical off-axis is quite bad. Mundorf AMTs are better, but seriously more expensive and still vertical of-axis is not that good as you get with TW29BN.
- mids: ??? 4"?: go with SB Acoustics Satori MT13TX-4 or MW16TX-4
Tested and these are extreme performers.
- bass section: if you will drive it active and want it very compact in size, take alook on is SB Acoustics shallow subwoofers, you may put 8 Ohm version into 10L sealed and get fair 30Hz, but need tofeed it with a good power - SB Acoustics Shallow subwoofers SW26DBAC76-8
Crossover: I prefer passive, but you may go with Hypex as following:
TW29BN
crossover - 1800-2000Hz -
MW13TX-4 - sealed about 3L (need to measure TS to get right volume)
Crossover - as low as possible suppose about 120Hz
SW26DBAC76-8 - sealed in 10L
You may get all the drivers, parts and Hypex plate amplifiers from www.audiohobby.eu - free shipping with UPS Express for orders over 600 EUR.
I suggest that best way for very compact version is to do it with passive crossover for tweeter+mid and join SW26 with FA-252.
If you go to full passive, then take TW29BN + MW13TX-4 (sealed 2.5-3L) + SB23MFCL45-4 in 25-30L box ported (or better with passive radiator) - you'll get fair 30Hz -3dB in quite compact floor-stander. If you put woofer on a side, then it might be only 100cm/height 22cm/width and 35cm/deepth - will look very attractive and visually will not take space.
With passive design you may use any amplifiers, and this kind of driver combination will sound better once you feed it with better amplification, DAC, source, etc. Active version will be limited to Hypex D, which sound good, but not that good what the drivers can reproduce.
PM, me if you need some help