hi
I have been looking for a folded horn for a long time, I almost built and then I found the peavey fh-1.
I understood from reading in the forum that the jbl2226 speaker is very high quality for folded horn, so i buy one, in addition to other forums they preferred it over the peavey black widow 1504.
What do you think about the results?
the black widow 1504 is little more punchy
measure at 0.2 meter normal level
I have been looking for a folded horn for a long time, I almost built and then I found the peavey fh-1.
I understood from reading in the forum that the jbl2226 speaker is very high quality for folded horn, so i buy one, in addition to other forums they preferred it over the peavey black widow 1504.
What do you think about the results?
the black widow 1504 is little more punchy
measure at 0.2 meter normal level
Attachments
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Assuming the tests used the same voltage and exact same cabinet and mic positions, the JBL2226 appears to have more output.
The black widow 1504 has 3mm Xmax, the JBl 2226 7.22mm.
The 1504, having less than half the Xmax, would start to distort at less than 6dB (1/4) of the drive level of the 2226. The level of harmonics can exceed the fundamental when driven past Xmax, easy to do if the FH-1 is pushed hard below 50Hz.
"Punchy" is a subjective term, the additional harmonics added could be what you are hearing.
40 Hz (low note on 4 string bass, low-ish kick drum) past Xmax will generate 80, 120, 160Hz (etc.) harmonics, and the range of 60-200 Hz is often what many regard as "punchy".
The black widow 1504 has 3mm Xmax, the JBl 2226 7.22mm.
The 1504, having less than half the Xmax, would start to distort at less than 6dB (1/4) of the drive level of the 2226. The level of harmonics can exceed the fundamental when driven past Xmax, easy to do if the FH-1 is pushed hard below 50Hz.
"Punchy" is a subjective term, the additional harmonics added could be what you are hearing.
40 Hz (low note on 4 string bass, low-ish kick drum) past Xmax will generate 80, 120, 160Hz (etc.) harmonics, and the range of 60-200 Hz is often what many regard as "punchy".
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Attached distortion measurements
yes i can see that the jbl is less distortion.
i don't know about the results, but the black widow is more boomy and punchy.
here is the jbl vs BW in the same chart.
the jbl is more high in the low mid (~200hz). I hear that in the guitar note (its nice)
the black widow in more punchy (<100hz)
measure at 1.2 meter normal level
yes i can see that the jbl is less distortion.
i don't know about the results, but the black widow is more boomy and punchy.
here is the jbl vs BW in the same chart.
the jbl is more high in the low mid (~200hz). I hear that in the guitar note (its nice)
the black widow in more punchy (<100hz)
measure at 1.2 meter normal level
Attachments
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its +-3mm in the datasheet, its the same? or its 6mm,f0=30
in the jbl datasheet its 7.22mm.f0=40
In any case, I hear the differences.
I would be happy for recommendations on what to do about it
https://jblpro.com/en-US/site_elements/2226h-j-specification-sheet
Black Widow Super Structure
Very interesting 🙂
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measure with white noise, put the horn in the same corner, 1m distance. 500hz cut.
i think the jbl is more high level and more flat.
i think the jbl is more high level and more flat.
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Xmax is a one way measurement, +-3mm is 3mm Xmax, 6mm peak to peak. The 2226 is +-7.22mm, 14.44 peak to peak.
At the levels you are measuring at (a fraction of a watt, well under 3 volts), not much difference in distortion. At 53 volts (the FH-1s rated power of 350 watts), you would see (and hear) things quite differently.
So far, your measurements are inconsistent, probably due to mic and speaker placement, or proximity to things that change between tests- for instance an unshorted speaker sitting on top the cabinet ;^).
Frequency response variations can easily be compensated for with equalization, but distortion due to exceeding Xmax can't. If you were to attempt to to equalize the FH-1 flat to 30 Hz, the excursion limitations would be much more obvious.
Really curious what kind of SPL the FH1 could do to EQd to around 30Hz. Might be doable in the home? I know PA wise the design is mid bass at best but still a great cabinet design though.
Zwiller,
Below Fc (horn cutoff) a sealed FLH (front loaded horn) output is similar to a sealed cabinet of the same size as the horn's compression chamber.
Excluding room gain, at 30Hz the 1504 could do somewhere around 95 dB 1meter half space, the 2206 around 103dB at Xmax.
Many thanks Art. I should have remembered that. Whatcha think FH1 vs Community VB790? https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/subwoofers/489194d1434636206-id-mid-horn-vb790lo-pdf
I don't think a whole lot of either for home use, and can't think of any PA applications where they would be my choice, cabinet volume compared to output, frequency and polar response.
They both have their place in history, can house a variety of speakers, and often cost less than the materials would for anything preferable.
They both have their place in history, can house a variety of speakers, and often cost less than the materials would for anything preferable.
I've been using the FH-1 for a few days at home, you know its similar to LA SCALA horn.
I've never heard low mid like this before. very deep and warm.
I've never heard low mid like this before. very deep and warm.
Thanks Art and erez. I am not overly impressed with my VB790 but I am very happy with the large format mid-high horns and those got hooked on horns. Tend to think FH1 might be mostly a lateral move but it does appear to have a longer path than the VB. Kinda funny, all of sudden no FH1 around. Normally there are tons cheap. Most probably met a firewood death.
yes 😀
I searched a lot until I found one, and I think I also paid a lot. ~300$ include black widow.
I'm used to placing my speakers not in the corners of the room because of acoustic issues.
It's weird that folded horns needs to be place in the corner to give it a little more bass.
What is the optimal position for this type of horns?
WOW Freddi... You are closer than I thought! Mmmmmmmmm..................
Placement is a whole 'nother ball of wax. I don't think horns have any real advantage over other alignments here and present the same problems acoustically and all rigs need some kind of strategy to work best. You need destructive EQ at minimum to tame room modes, but ideally acoustic treatment. I laugh when I see pictures of outrageous esoteric expensive rigs sitting in the worst of acoustic environments...
It might sound pretty good in a SUV. If the normal speaker is the PBW 1504 with 350wrms, then the JBL should POUND with over double the Xmax.
Freddi I shot you a PM but never heard back. Maybe inbox full? I am game if you have not sold to BP1 yet LOL