So something has been really driving me crazy while listening to music. And I know its not supposed to be like this.
And that is using my Tube Amplfier, and finding myself way overally worrying about the tubes on my Dynaco St-70. (Which I fully restored)
I love the sound, and I love everything about tubes and I'm a bit "emotionally" Obsessed with them and get attached. In terms of music and the enjoyment they do give me.
But I am having a very hard time just simply enjoying the amp without thinking about every second I use it, (apparently these amazingly georgious tubes inch closer to death.
I don't want to worry about such things while trying too enjoy music. I Just want use it and enjoy it.
I have my Mullard XF3 Blackburns and 7199s Which came with my stock Dynaco St-70.
I love these tubes and think they are absolutely georgious in sounds and looks!!! I got them tested aswell. 78/100 which is about where new tubes test on my Tube guys tester. He said they are very strong great tubes! And where used on this amp seamingly since the beginning.
And want listen too them, but don't want them to die either..... They are obviously at this point, unobtainable for the unwordly prices they go for. Over $2000 for a quad. And are obviously not made anylonger. I did not pay anywhere near that for the entire amp, ile tell you that mutch. It needed restoration however.
It's hard for me to get passed that thought while just wanting to listen to music, I want to relax in the music, not stress about its health of the amp.
I have a Bucking transformer for AC line too 115VAC from my higher 120-124v, and always Biased too around 1.42V. So this amps transformer stays very cool. Am I overthinking this?? I mean there are people still rocking their original tubes in their st70 from the 60s. And then I read people replacing tubes nonstop and eats them for breakfast.
But I have all these tubes, and I think about it in my head and go "So in 10x years all these beautifull tubes will all be garbage?" I can't take that thought that this beautifull amp may destroy itself.
How can I get past this nonsense so I can just listen to music and enjoy it like its supposed to be enjoyed?
My rectifier is a 5AR4 Matshushida also on the amp when I got it, which apparently may outlast me.
I listen to this amp all the time. Everyday. So I am a bit worried about these Mullard Xf3 Tubes.
Some of the things I've done to this amp include:
Replaced Bias pots with the nicer replacements. All capacitors replaced, Gold RCA Jacks I modified to fit using the original brown mount.
New Bias resistors, capacitors, and the old selenium diode bypassed aswell with silicon 1N4007 1kv.
And replaced the 75v 50uf caps with 100uf,200v.
And that is using my Tube Amplfier, and finding myself way overally worrying about the tubes on my Dynaco St-70. (Which I fully restored)
I love the sound, and I love everything about tubes and I'm a bit "emotionally" Obsessed with them and get attached. In terms of music and the enjoyment they do give me.
But I am having a very hard time just simply enjoying the amp without thinking about every second I use it, (apparently these amazingly georgious tubes inch closer to death.
I don't want to worry about such things while trying too enjoy music. I Just want use it and enjoy it.
I have my Mullard XF3 Blackburns and 7199s Which came with my stock Dynaco St-70.
I love these tubes and think they are absolutely georgious in sounds and looks!!! I got them tested aswell. 78/100 which is about where new tubes test on my Tube guys tester. He said they are very strong great tubes! And where used on this amp seamingly since the beginning.
And want listen too them, but don't want them to die either..... They are obviously at this point, unobtainable for the unwordly prices they go for. Over $2000 for a quad. And are obviously not made anylonger. I did not pay anywhere near that for the entire amp, ile tell you that mutch. It needed restoration however.
It's hard for me to get passed that thought while just wanting to listen to music, I want to relax in the music, not stress about its health of the amp.
I have a Bucking transformer for AC line too 115VAC from my higher 120-124v, and always Biased too around 1.42V. So this amps transformer stays very cool. Am I overthinking this?? I mean there are people still rocking their original tubes in their st70 from the 60s. And then I read people replacing tubes nonstop and eats them for breakfast.
But I have all these tubes, and I think about it in my head and go "So in 10x years all these beautifull tubes will all be garbage?" I can't take that thought that this beautifull amp may destroy itself.
How can I get past this nonsense so I can just listen to music and enjoy it like its supposed to be enjoyed?
My rectifier is a 5AR4 Matshushida also on the amp when I got it, which apparently may outlast me.
I listen to this amp all the time. Everyday. So I am a bit worried about these Mullard Xf3 Tubes.
Some of the things I've done to this amp include:
Replaced Bias pots with the nicer replacements. All capacitors replaced, Gold RCA Jacks I modified to fit using the original brown mount.
New Bias resistors, capacitors, and the old selenium diode bypassed aswell with silicon 1N4007 1kv.
And replaced the 75v 50uf caps with 100uf,200v.
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Use the special tubes once in a while on special occasions, or weekends, or whatever, and run current production EL34 for day-to-day.
Some people buy million dollar Stradivarius violins, and put them in sterile, temperature-and-humidity controlled, deep underground bank-vault lockers, to appreciate in value. Never risking being played.
Others — musicians — buy the Stradivari and play them. Risk breaking strings on them. Lug them around to concerts, in laps, on planes. These million dollar ponies are alive. Even if they break, they can be fixed. And because they're played, they actually become worth more.
You invested a gazillion dollars in magical-reputation tube quads; your probably very-refined ear tells you you made an awesome purchase, spending a gazillion on them, and carefully retrofitting your ST–70 with absolutely every last conservatıve but edgy improvement. You've sunk a few thousand into the amplifier, now you worry about replacing a few valves later in its life?
I personally purchased a rather impressive 7' 9" grand piano when my modestly talented kid turned 12. His modestly pedantic teacher said it'd be good for him to progress. It was. Guests, having no clue that over $40,000 was sunk into that beautiful piece of furniture innocently put drinks on its top, and they inevitably spilled. It cost no small amount of tinkerer's time (mine) to learn the fine art of fixing it back up to 'mint' condition. Was I angry? Oh, superfically, yes. But in the end, it was a piece of expensive furniture. Its only value was in producing music, and that only when tickled by fingers far, far more nimble than mine. By a mind more nimble than mine. By a talent more elevated than mine. The spil't drink didn't matter.
The point is, if you invested in an esquisite music making box called “an amplifier”, and now you are so fearful of its future, that you cannot enjoy it, then it is definitely time to sell it off and get something, some ten things that you can enjoy.
Otherwise, it is just a Stradivarius in an underground chamber, a Steinway on a dias, a big ol' chunk of diamond-crystal carbon that no one can wear for fear of being stolen or worse.
⋅-⋅-⋅ Just saying, ⋅-⋅-⋅
⋅-=≡ GoatGuy ✓ ≡=-⋅
Others — musicians — buy the Stradivari and play them. Risk breaking strings on them. Lug them around to concerts, in laps, on planes. These million dollar ponies are alive. Even if they break, they can be fixed. And because they're played, they actually become worth more.
You invested a gazillion dollars in magical-reputation tube quads; your probably very-refined ear tells you you made an awesome purchase, spending a gazillion on them, and carefully retrofitting your ST–70 with absolutely every last conservatıve but edgy improvement. You've sunk a few thousand into the amplifier, now you worry about replacing a few valves later in its life?
I personally purchased a rather impressive 7' 9" grand piano when my modestly talented kid turned 12. His modestly pedantic teacher said it'd be good for him to progress. It was. Guests, having no clue that over $40,000 was sunk into that beautiful piece of furniture innocently put drinks on its top, and they inevitably spilled. It cost no small amount of tinkerer's time (mine) to learn the fine art of fixing it back up to 'mint' condition. Was I angry? Oh, superfically, yes. But in the end, it was a piece of expensive furniture. Its only value was in producing music, and that only when tickled by fingers far, far more nimble than mine. By a mind more nimble than mine. By a talent more elevated than mine. The spil't drink didn't matter.
The point is, if you invested in an esquisite music making box called “an amplifier”, and now you are so fearful of its future, that you cannot enjoy it, then it is definitely time to sell it off and get something, some ten things that you can enjoy.
Otherwise, it is just a Stradivarius in an underground chamber, a Steinway on a dias, a big ol' chunk of diamond-crystal carbon that no one can wear for fear of being stolen or worse.
⋅-⋅-⋅ Just saying, ⋅-⋅-⋅
⋅-=≡ GoatGuy ✓ ≡=-⋅
I would enjoy them, just make sure they are biased correctly. Maybe run them 10% or so cooler than recommended.
SMH I actually use XF3 EL34 as pass elements in the voltage regulators of my line stage so I guess I am the wrong one to ask.
Don't overthink it or you'll never enjoy the music.
SMH I actually use XF3 EL34 as pass elements in the voltage regulators of my line stage so I guess I am the wrong one to ask.
Don't overthink it or you'll never enjoy the music.
I'm exhausted and concerned about my computer screen now - the size of those images must have worn it out...
I think the OP should start drinking some expensive booze while listening to the expensive tubes.
That, or make an appointment with a psychiatrist who might subscribe some medication which makes you feel drunk/stoned after taking the pills. Then, that guy will stay up all night working manically for a few days and crash for a week or two, stop taking his meds because he doesn't like the way it makes him feel.
I'm more like Goat Guy- spend a ton of money on something you enjoy. Learn to work on it or pay for someone to fix it.
When I first got married, my father in law would re-gift these bottles of XO that I didn't like at all. One New Year's Eve, I was standing in line at the local booze-o-rama and saw a locked glass display case with the exact same bottle of XO my father gave me. When I saw the price, I still didn't like the taste of XO, but I never gave away another bottle of XO.
That, or make an appointment with a psychiatrist who might subscribe some medication which makes you feel drunk/stoned after taking the pills. Then, that guy will stay up all night working manically for a few days and crash for a week or two, stop taking his meds because he doesn't like the way it makes him feel.
I'm more like Goat Guy- spend a ton of money on something you enjoy. Learn to work on it or pay for someone to fix it.
When I first got married, my father in law would re-gift these bottles of XO that I didn't like at all. One New Year's Eve, I was standing in line at the local booze-o-rama and saw a locked glass display case with the exact same bottle of XO my father gave me. When I saw the price, I still didn't like the taste of XO, but I never gave away another bottle of XO.
I built a stock ST-70 and honestly think tube quality isn’t the weakest link here, so by all means replace your valuable Mullards with some new manufacture tubes you won’t fret over. I personally liked the E-H 6CA7, Winged C EL-34 and anything made by Gold Lion.
Sorry but clearly you do not have an "Electronics" problem by any means.
Hard to suggest the proper Professional though, lately my best efforts in that area have not been welcomed, so I refrain.
All I can tell is you get help, fast.
Won´t talk about mean life, failure statistics, probability, etc. because the battle is not fought on those grounds.
You have a very nice amplifier! 🙂
People spend big bucks in high-end hifi. E.g., $2000 or more for a cartridge that lasts 1000 hours. From that perspective, $2000 for a quad of new tubes isn't bad. I would buy at least one set of these glorious tubes to have as backup, before the prices soar even higher. If you are not into spending that much, buy a set of good quality modern production tubes and have a listen. I think that the chances are good that you would be very pleased with the sound.
People spend big bucks in high-end hifi. E.g., $2000 or more for a cartridge that lasts 1000 hours. From that perspective, $2000 for a quad of new tubes isn't bad. I would buy at least one set of these glorious tubes to have as backup, before the prices soar even higher. If you are not into spending that much, buy a set of good quality modern production tubes and have a listen. I think that the chances are good that you would be very pleased with the sound.
Zastin17, I feel your pain but understand the responses from the others here as well.
The amp I use most I built over 20y ago and has tired old Philips EL84's in them. One of these mornings when I got downstairs I saw it had been on all night. Forgot to turn it off. Just think of all the hours of their lives wasted senselessly 😱
Oh well, as long as they are alive I will enjoy them.
There's also a quad of '68/'72 RCA (by Tung Sol) 6550 in my stash that I really enjoyed. Much better sound than what I got from Russian or Chinese versions. Questionable output transformers though, so I wanted to save the tubes for an amp worthy of the (now) expensive tubes. Still in their boxes decades later. Now that's a waste!
In the mean time I got a life's supply of cheap TV tubes. No worries about wearing them out or reducing their value upon use 😛
And to put things further into perspective: even a month's salary spent on a set of tubes or a cartridge (that you will be able to use for years) is only a fraction of what many people throw away when they buy a new car! Driving it for the first time: instant big loss of value.
It's all about priorities and what makes you happy.
Relax and enjoy the music
The amp I use most I built over 20y ago and has tired old Philips EL84's in them. One of these mornings when I got downstairs I saw it had been on all night. Forgot to turn it off. Just think of all the hours of their lives wasted senselessly 😱
Oh well, as long as they are alive I will enjoy them.
There's also a quad of '68/'72 RCA (by Tung Sol) 6550 in my stash that I really enjoyed. Much better sound than what I got from Russian or Chinese versions. Questionable output transformers though, so I wanted to save the tubes for an amp worthy of the (now) expensive tubes. Still in their boxes decades later. Now that's a waste!
In the mean time I got a life's supply of cheap TV tubes. No worries about wearing them out or reducing their value upon use 😛
And to put things further into perspective: even a month's salary spent on a set of tubes or a cartridge (that you will be able to use for years) is only a fraction of what many people throw away when they buy a new car! Driving it for the first time: instant big loss of value.
It's all about priorities and what makes you happy.
Relax and enjoy the music
Enjoy your tubes.
Call me in a decade when you need another quad of NOS Mullards. Not sure if I have any XF3's. I'm sure I have XF2's.
Candidly, I like the old Tesla EL34's the best. And you can get them in that cool Cobalt blue bottle.
Call me in a decade when you need another quad of NOS Mullards. Not sure if I have any XF3's. I'm sure I have XF2's.
Candidly, I like the old Tesla EL34's the best. And you can get them in that cool Cobalt blue bottle.
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While I stock and prefer "old stock" tubes (GE, Sylvania, RCA, etc), I have to shake my head at some tube prices that I've seen.
Like anything "vintage", there's a certain adoration to owning tube-powered equipment.
But yet, it's gotten silly, obsessive, and downright rediculous, and as the OP's comments convey, a sickness of the mind.
Spending huge amount of money on a "special" tube is plain nuts.
For a long time, and perhaps even now, the lowly #45 tube was priced rediculously, and that made me laugh, because I'd never be that dumb and desperate to spend that amount of money on it.
Seems Western Electric brand of those tubes, among others, must have some invisible rare diamonds embedded in them.
Nuts.
Like anything "vintage", there's a certain adoration to owning tube-powered equipment.
But yet, it's gotten silly, obsessive, and downright rediculous, and as the OP's comments convey, a sickness of the mind.
Spending huge amount of money on a "special" tube is plain nuts.
For a long time, and perhaps even now, the lowly #45 tube was priced rediculously, and that made me laugh, because I'd never be that dumb and desperate to spend that amount of money on it.
Seems Western Electric brand of those tubes, among others, must have some invisible rare diamonds embedded in them.
Nuts.
A couple of winters ago, I came up here to the lake for the holidays. When I got back home, I went out to my radio room and noticed I'd left the tube amp on. At least forty ( 40 ) days straight. RCA 2A3's. Biased at full data sheet power.
Didn't seem to affect either me or the tubes. Was a good burn in for the amp.
I sympathise with your fears that you are slowly consuming something that is not replaceable. Yes, you could stumble across old Mullard or Telefunken EL34's again, but I expect yours were also matched by Dynaco, and that is a whole different ball game.
It is possible to buy a matched quad of EL34's for less than $80. I use 'Billington Gold' (rebadged JJ tubes) in my Tubelab SSE, and they are very satisfying. Occaisionally I try to roll different tubes, but by the time I've unplugged, swapped the tubes, restarted, played the same music, I really can't comment on the differences! But some tubes are 'harsher', so there is a difference.
So if I was you, I'd keep the Ferrari locked up for sunny weekends, and invest in a Ford Predictable for my daily runner.
It is possible to buy a matched quad of EL34's for less than $80. I use 'Billington Gold' (rebadged JJ tubes) in my Tubelab SSE, and they are very satisfying. Occaisionally I try to roll different tubes, but by the time I've unplugged, swapped the tubes, restarted, played the same music, I really can't comment on the differences! But some tubes are 'harsher', so there is a difference.
So if I was you, I'd keep the Ferrari locked up for sunny weekends, and invest in a Ford Predictable for my daily runner.
Buy some fair and reasonably priced tubes. Put them in. Listen and compare the sound you remembered from your fancy tubes. I think until you can actually quantify the difference in your mind, you may find that the distance is not worth fretting over. You are telling yourself that your glorious current tubes can never be equaled, without even giving yourself an objective measurement against some fair price tubes to back up that hypothesis. Thats not the scientific method, therein lies your anguish.
I have a couple of modified antique Rauland monoblocks, each using a matched quad of US-made 2A3s. Love the amplifiers, although sometimes forget to turn them off before going to bed. I believe the tubes will last for the remainder of my life.
Time is the most precious thing we have, not fancy tubes.
Time is the most precious thing we have, not fancy tubes.
Build a tube amp that uses cheap TV tubes. After recovering from the shock of listening to it, sell that expensive piece of advertising for peace of mind. Expensive tubes don't come anywhere near to what you can do with cheap TV tubes:
I have enough spare tubes in the closet for the next 1000 years. Last curves are from a $0.35 tube.
I have enough spare tubes in the closet for the next 1000 years. Last curves are from a $0.35 tube.
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That.
Funny thing is that NOS today is almost a guarantee of crap tubes, fo the very good reason they are not made any more, good ones get sold and poor quality ones are returned to the heap to be resold later.
TV tubes are not made any more either, but there are MILLIONS in stock, so they statistically as good (say, 2% duds) as in the 50´s and 60´s when they were made.
Now if you pull the "Audio" good ones and return confirmed junk to the pile ... what would you expect?
Funny thing is that NOS today is almost a guarantee of crap tubes, fo the very good reason they are not made any more, good ones get sold and poor quality ones are returned to the heap to be resold later.
TV tubes are not made any more either, but there are MILLIONS in stock, so they statistically as good (say, 2% duds) as in the 50´s and 60´s when they were made.
Now if you pull the "Audio" good ones and return confirmed junk to the pile ... what would you expect?
NOS "audio" tubes are a crap shoot. Get one of the new PC connected tube curve tracers (typically around the price of an expensive audio tube or two) to check those out. Check for microphonics too (shipped all over the place)
Same goes for checking TV type NOS tubes. Especially onesie-twosies off Ebay. Curve tracing is also essential for matching tubes and finding new "undiscovered" types.
Quantity buys are safer if there is plentiful stock of a tube type.
There are occasionally sources of Mil contract tubes in quantity sealed boxes.
The 6197 (6CL6) tubes I got recently for $0.35 each were in sealed boxes of 200 tubes. And they test like nearly matched tubes on the curve tracer with just random selection. Best tube buy I've come across.
Many tube vendors will either pre-test NOS tubes for you or allow returns for replacements. Have had good results with Vacuumtubes.net and ESRC for quantity buys.
RIP ESRC and Stan, very much missed. Sure do miss the old $1 tube list days at those two places, lot of good tubes were on there surprisingly. 12GE5, 21HB5A, 12LU8, 6GF7, 12HL7, 6BN11, 6HB6, 29GK6, 6HZ8, 13FM7, 6JC6, 9DX base tubes ...............
I used to wait impatiently for the tube sale flyers from Antique Electronics too.
6JN6, 21JV6, 6HJ5, 21LG6A, 35LR6, 6CB5A, 17KV6A, 6EX6, 5687, ..............
Same goes for checking TV type NOS tubes. Especially onesie-twosies off Ebay. Curve tracing is also essential for matching tubes and finding new "undiscovered" types.
Quantity buys are safer if there is plentiful stock of a tube type.
There are occasionally sources of Mil contract tubes in quantity sealed boxes.
The 6197 (6CL6) tubes I got recently for $0.35 each were in sealed boxes of 200 tubes. And they test like nearly matched tubes on the curve tracer with just random selection. Best tube buy I've come across.
Many tube vendors will either pre-test NOS tubes for you or allow returns for replacements. Have had good results with Vacuumtubes.net and ESRC for quantity buys.
RIP ESRC and Stan, very much missed. Sure do miss the old $1 tube list days at those two places, lot of good tubes were on there surprisingly. 12GE5, 21HB5A, 12LU8, 6GF7, 12HL7, 6BN11, 6HB6, 29GK6, 6HZ8, 13FM7, 6JC6, 9DX base tubes ...............
I used to wait impatiently for the tube sale flyers from Antique Electronics too.
6JN6, 21JV6, 6HJ5, 21LG6A, 35LR6, 6CB5A, 17KV6A, 6EX6, 5687, ..............
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