I came across this design on a Polish website.
It is an MTM design using 2 SB17NAC Midwoofers and 1 SB29RDC Tweeter.
I am thinking of going ahead with this build but would like your expert opinions on two things.
1) Does the crossover design seem ok or could it be improved.
2) Could I use the Satori TW29R tweeter instead of the SB29RDC without any changes to the crossover.
Thanks in advance.
It is an MTM design using 2 SB17NAC Midwoofers and 1 SB29RDC Tweeter.
I am thinking of going ahead with this build but would like your expert opinions on two things.
1) Does the crossover design seem ok or could it be improved.
2) Could I use the Satori TW29R tweeter instead of the SB29RDC without any changes to the crossover.
Thanks in advance.
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1) Yes, once built and measured in your room you could change the response if needed. Whether this would be an improvement only you can be the judge.
2) Yes, although here is a summary with a few more words
www.audioexcite.com >> Blog Archive >> SB Acoustics SB29RDC vs. Satori TW29R-B
Get them built. 🙂
2) Yes, although here is a summary with a few more words
www.audioexcite.com >> Blog Archive >> SB Acoustics SB29RDC vs. Satori TW29R-B
Get them built. 🙂
i do not get a good feel seeing these, too few measurements and the xo looks a little strange and box build looks a little strange, but they may still perform superbly 🙂
I have attached a completely random Xover as an example does it have to many components?
I think you will find that many people here would use that many components with modern drivers.
The components are there for a reason, you wouldn't just add them for nothing as it adds to the overall cost. Eg the notch filter on the bass side and the coil on the tweeter.
In past years manufacturers would not implement the notch in their cheaper loudspeakers simply by ignoring the response aberration and hoping most people wouldn't notice it, some will even like it. Not addressing the problem allows them to save the cost of three components. The largest companies today would have it engineered out by careful design choices in the cabinet dimensions, or cone and suspension components.
If you don't like components there is the single driver forum to take it to a logical conclusion. Something simple like a frugal horn or one of the designs for Markaudio drivers by Scottmoose and Planet 10 .
Alternatively why not design something for yourself using those drivers and tuning by ear to see what you end up with.
Unless you can go and hear the design in question or even better listen to it in your own listening room, you can never know how the speaker will actually perform. Which is similar to listening to a speaker on demo in a dealers showroom and then taking the loudspeakers home and finding out they do not perform as expected. That's why you have to pay for a good dealer who is willing to support this activity or home demonstrations which is tricky in the present environment.
it could be worthwhile describing in detail what you want to achieve, your current loudspeakers and listening environment and what you are unhappy with or would like to improve. Do yo need cabinets or can you make your own?
May I wish you a Happy New year, and stay safe.
I think you will find that many people here would use that many components with modern drivers.
The components are there for a reason, you wouldn't just add them for nothing as it adds to the overall cost. Eg the notch filter on the bass side and the coil on the tweeter.
In past years manufacturers would not implement the notch in their cheaper loudspeakers simply by ignoring the response aberration and hoping most people wouldn't notice it, some will even like it. Not addressing the problem allows them to save the cost of three components. The largest companies today would have it engineered out by careful design choices in the cabinet dimensions, or cone and suspension components.
If you don't like components there is the single driver forum to take it to a logical conclusion. Something simple like a frugal horn or one of the designs for Markaudio drivers by Scottmoose and Planet 10 .
Alternatively why not design something for yourself using those drivers and tuning by ear to see what you end up with.
Unless you can go and hear the design in question or even better listen to it in your own listening room, you can never know how the speaker will actually perform. Which is similar to listening to a speaker on demo in a dealers showroom and then taking the loudspeakers home and finding out they do not perform as expected. That's why you have to pay for a good dealer who is willing to support this activity or home demonstrations which is tricky in the present environment.
it could be worthwhile describing in detail what you want to achieve, your current loudspeakers and listening environment and what you are unhappy with or would like to improve. Do yo need cabinets or can you make your own?
May I wish you a Happy New year, and stay safe.
Attachments
Not reading Polish, I can't understand if those speakers are designed with measured data, as the graphs seem simulations only (and i don't want to speak about the scale of the graphs). The components in the crossover have all a plausible reason, except the coil in series with the tweeter. If it is there to tilt down the response probably it would have been better to use a cap and resistor in parallel to the tweeter instead.
Without knowing the answer to my first doubt, I wouldn't build them.
Ralf
Without knowing the answer to my first doubt, I wouldn't build them.
Ralf
May i suggest google translate does an excellent job of Polish to English. I am sure you could investigate further if you wanted too. A explanation of the final tweeter inductor is given, and suggest it doesn't have to be used.
This is what the designer says about the coil, translated by Google from Polish.
This little serial coil on the tweeter does the job. First of all, it temper the top octave and slightly tightens the phase, but you can remove it if you need to increase the amount of treble.
This kind of network isn't unheard of. It looks as though the designer kept the result clean throughout the band of interest.
It appears to be based on simple data, and its voicing may need work.
It appears to be based on simple data, and its voicing may need work.
Would you like to shed some more knowledge on the voicing?
This is a DIY forum we could all do with a little learning.
This is a DIY forum we could all do with a little learning.
Not sure what you mean by voicing.
Happy New Year to all.
Thank you everyone for your help.
Happy new year 🙂
For one thing, many like the treble rolled downward or tilted. If the following suggested explanation is to be believed, I think it means that a flat response is merely one option on a continuum...
For one thing, many like the treble rolled downward or tilted. If the following suggested explanation is to be believed, I think it means that a flat response is merely one option on a continuum...
Then consider the rising directivity at the top of a woofer response. It then crosses to the tweeter which is playing wide. This can sound like disjointed and heavy lower treble. Equalising cannot fix this, but it can compensate somewhat if not overdone. The same might be said about other acoustic issues such as room reflections. Some would also say that adjusting the bass levels is important. In addition to this, the baffle step. It's unclear from the data how this has been done, and impossible to know what the room will do.gedlee said:
Hi AllenB
So do you think the crossover is a good design or should it be avoided.
Also what do you think of the tweeter swap idea.
Thanks
So do you think the crossover is a good design or should it be avoided.
Also what do you think of the tweeter swap idea.
Thanks
If they are the same kind and their response shows the same then it may work. Expect to maybe adjust the levels at the least.
Hi AllenB
Yes understand your comments regarding the tweeter swap but what is you opinion on the crossover do you think it is ok or is it flawed
Yes understand your comments regarding the tweeter swap but what is you opinion on the crossover do you think it is ok or is it flawed
Without knowing ( measuring ) the characteristics of the drivers involved it's not really possible to know if a crossover design is good or bad from the schematic. The parts count is not a good measure of quality. The circuit shown appears to show a low pass filter for the woofer with a slight reduction in level just below the crossover frequency. The high pass circuit shows a high pass with a slight increase in level at the top of the pass band. These are both perfectly normal characteristics for a large number of speakers but wrong for others. Only way to find out is to build a set and find out. The simple high pass and low pass elements are the basic crossover 'must haves' so you can easily snip out the voicing or equalizing components if you want to compare.
Riley Casey is right. With a decision like this I might try to assess the level of care and skill put into it, and maybe throw out a few clues to my opinion on the thread.
At the end of the day I'd need to rely on my own skill to make sure it ends up being what I want. Or looking to the forum for help with specific issues once I could determine what problems I had 😉
At the end of the day I'd need to rely on my own skill to make sure it ends up being what I want. Or looking to the forum for help with specific issues once I could determine what problems I had 😉
I have decided to build these speakers with the tweeter swap mentioned earlier but still have a couple of questions if anyone can help.
I am going to build them as sealed without ports.
Can any one tell me what the baffle step is.
The boxes are 200mm wide if that helps.
The reason I ask is that the speakers will be right up against the back wall.
If I wanted the crossovers designed from scratch does anyone know of someone who provides this service.
I am going to build them as sealed without ports.
Can any one tell me what the baffle step is.
The boxes are 200mm wide if that helps.
The reason I ask is that the speakers will be right up against the back wall.
If I wanted the crossovers designed from scratch does anyone know of someone who provides this service.