Wish to build a pair of speakers for nearfield with dynamics in bass and inner details mids and highs
priced under $500 a pair
Opinions please?
priced under $500 a pair
Opinions please?
Dynamic and detail often do not go together.
The 1st driver i would think about is the Alpair 7.3. Maybe the new Alpair 7ms (haven’t listened too it enuff yet. EnABLed they get even better at detail/DDR.
A7.3 is getting hard to find (i have some), EnABLed even harder.
A larger driver should give more dynamics which suggest sthe Alpai r11ms which fits into a quite small box but offers a larger cone (the A7ms and A11ms fit into the same boxes, the A7ms tuned a bit lower.
Here the CGR for the Pluvia 11, same box (but for details) as A7/11ms.
For nearfield use, levels will be less which leaves more room for dynamics.
dave
The 1st driver i would think about is the Alpair 7.3. Maybe the new Alpair 7ms (haven’t listened too it enuff yet. EnABLed they get even better at detail/DDR.
A7.3 is getting hard to find (i have some), EnABLed even harder.
A larger driver should give more dynamics which suggest sthe Alpai r11ms which fits into a quite small box but offers a larger cone (the A7ms and A11ms fit into the same boxes, the A7ms tuned a bit lower.
Here the CGR for the Pluvia 11, same box (but for details) as A7/11ms.
For nearfield use, levels will be less which leaves more room for dynamics.
dave
I have the Alpair 11ms but this is a larger driver. It would probably be hard to beat the Alpair 7ms for your purpose and the still smaller Alpair 5.3 would be ideal for a compact computer speaker. Good luck with your journey.
Alpair 5.2/3 or FF85wk in the samll 2.5 litre miniOnkens tend to leave people a bit stunned after hearing them in the bif system. They are somewhat bass shy as would be expected given the size.
Do note that the A5.2/3 and A7/11ms have a mono Suspension, no spider so there are not 2 suspension systems fighting each other leaving the possiblility of gretaer information/detail retrieval.
dave
Do note that the A5.2/3 and A7/11ms have a mono Suspension, no spider so there are not 2 suspension systems fighting each other leaving the possiblility of gretaer information/detail retrieval.
dave
If you can find some either of the Alpair 6.2 (metal or paper) would fit (size wise and bass extension) inbetween the drivers mentioned above.
Boxes (miniOnken anyway) from 2.5 litre to 9 litre accross all drivers mentioned.
dave
Boxes (miniOnken anyway) from 2.5 litre to 9 litre accross all drivers mentioned.
dave
The one with the highest power handling for dynamics and widest, flattest BW for the rest, i.e. a contradiction in terms, so either choose one or the other or accept somewhere in-between = co/tri-ax.
GM
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Joined 2009
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Agree with both Dave and GM (Greg?) - you'll be looking at a two-way or a much larger full range driver to minimize those compromises. I went with a 15" full range driver (the whizzer cone means it's essentially a coaxial two way if we want to be accurate) as best suiting my preferred compromises but there are, as usual, other ways to achieve your goals.
Right, though Gregory on my birth certificate, legal, etc., docs. 😉
Acually, it doesn't need a whizzer, just a mechanical XO as W.E.'s 8" 755 proved circa 1936 three way single driver with a single diaphragm and two clearly seen 'surrounds' isolating them: https://images.reverb.com/image/upl...,t_large/v1564607908/k6dot5tiugw9go5bsodt.jpg
GM
Acually, it doesn't need a whizzer
GM
A bit of shout, but fascinating (on the lil 6.5” linked).
After hearing a focused array of 4” drivers, I can see why people are against whizzers......
But necessary for a larger driver, good for flattening a climbing response and helps dispersion, I like to say it adds an octave, but it does ring out of phase making a sawtooth response on some if 1/24 measurement.
I think a manufacturer should include possible values for notch filter, similar to the fa22 8”.
So, Dave, detail vs dynamics, interesting.
After hearing a focused array of 4” drivers, I can see why people are against whizzers......
But necessary for a larger driver, good for flattening a climbing response and helps dispersion, I like to say it adds an octave, but it does ring out of phase making a sawtooth response on some if 1/24 measurement.
I think a manufacturer should include possible values for notch filter, similar to the fa22 8”.
So, Dave, detail vs dynamics, interesting.
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Yes, they've clearly copied the appearance, albeit in a different size, with different materials. Based on what a friend found with a pair of FAST10s though, I rather doubt it even remotely approaches the 755's characteristics. Although as a fan of the 755, I'm very willing to be proven wrong.
MarkAudio Pluvia7HD is more better at 4" Full-Range.
MAOP7 is too high price , Alpair7MS is little poor sound , Pluvia7PHD is poor treble.
Pluvia7HD sounds at YouTube
「MarkAudio Pluvia7HD」＋「HB-10F」で聴く女性ヴォーカル～[Joni Mitchell / Both Sides, Now ～ The Circle Game] - YouTube
MAOP7 is too high price , Alpair7MS is little poor sound , Pluvia7PHD is poor treble.
Pluvia7HD sounds at YouTube
「MarkAudio Pluvia7HD」＋「HB-10F」で聴く女性ヴォーカル～[Joni Mitchell / Both Sides, Now ～ The Circle Game] - YouTube
Hi,
Although the Lii drivers are not bad for their price (I have the 5´´), I doubt that they´re on the same level as the historic highlights, Coral Beta 8 and the 755...
The 5´´ looks a bit like a Coral, but that´s just the look. Under the surface is a quite well-made little driver which comes at a low price and will most probably work in a BR box for desktop use, if FR is corrected with a filter. Some experiences are to be found in this forum.
The TB 2143 are also quite nice, several box and filter applications exist. Also here, a lot has been said in this forum.
A little bit bigger, nicely documented with box and application notes, is the Seas 6´´. But for desktop listening, a well-made 5´´ fullrange in a box, without filter quality compromises, should be fine and also within the TO´s budget.
All the best
Mattes
Although the Lii drivers are not bad for their price (I have the 5´´), I doubt that they´re on the same level as the historic highlights, Coral Beta 8 and the 755...
The 5´´ looks a bit like a Coral, but that´s just the look. Under the surface is a quite well-made little driver which comes at a low price and will most probably work in a BR box for desktop use, if FR is corrected with a filter. Some experiences are to be found in this forum.
The TB 2143 are also quite nice, several box and filter applications exist. Also here, a lot has been said in this forum.
A little bit bigger, nicely documented with box and application notes, is the Seas 6´´. But for desktop listening, a well-made 5´´ fullrange in a box, without filter quality compromises, should be fine and also within the TO´s budget.
All the best
Mattes
I own three 4 inch drive units. A Fostex 103en. A MA Pluvia 7 and a MA Alpair 7MS.
The Fostex has a great detailed midrange. The tops sound a little dry with a narrow of axis response. It maybe the narrow of axis response on top that makes it sound a bit dry due to reduced reflections. It would make a good wideband midrange in a three way with the tweeter coming in quite high perhaps. Or excellent as a desktop or near-field monitor.
The Pluvia 7 is a good all round driver that I used in a WAW system. Good off axis. After a while I noticed it to be a bit fatiguing which I put down to its raised upper range to which I added a notch filter centred around 12Khz.
I replaced the Pluvia 7 in my WAW with the Alpair 7MS and it was an immediate improvement. Smoother yet more detailed than the Pluvia and a more natural treble with no need for a notch on the high frequncies. Admittedly I haven't listened to it full range yet but as a WAW with 300Hz crossover, so I'm paraising it as a mid tweeter.
The Fostex has a great detailed midrange. The tops sound a little dry with a narrow of axis response. It maybe the narrow of axis response on top that makes it sound a bit dry due to reduced reflections. It would make a good wideband midrange in a three way with the tweeter coming in quite high perhaps. Or excellent as a desktop or near-field monitor.
The Pluvia 7 is a good all round driver that I used in a WAW system. Good off axis. After a while I noticed it to be a bit fatiguing which I put down to its raised upper range to which I added a notch filter centred around 12Khz.
I replaced the Pluvia 7 in my WAW with the Alpair 7MS and it was an immediate improvement. Smoother yet more detailed than the Pluvia and a more natural treble with no need for a notch on the high frequncies. Admittedly I haven't listened to it full range yet but as a WAW with 300Hz crossover, so I'm paraising it as a mid tweeter.
Do you listen on axis? Many fullrange speakers have a rising response because they are designed to be listened to off axis, it can give a better power response.
Even slightly off axis they sounded a bit hot. Because they are part of a much larger WAW system it was a bit impractical to turn them off axis too much. The 7MS which replaced them are great on or off axis.
Nearfield gives you choice headroom : that means angling the loudspeakers is possible ? and Less than 2 meters distance ?
Why not a sealed SB23CAC-4 with a 3"/4" (a 6.5 cm Sd to phrase it short) FR as the ScanSpeak 10F/44 no tweeter as it's nearfield and you can toe in the cabinet for what happen above 10k hz -the 10F is flat to 20k on axis and barely flat to 10k at 30°-
Cut-off around 700/800 hz : try whatever that please you better : a Buterworth, a LR2, A Bessel for transcient, or a LR4 if you play loud.
It's in the windows price (I'm working on that, though I'm slow... the tweeter is a pain to choose in a 3Ways conf for the so many reasons yo already know 🙁)
I liked also what Adasson member showed with a Betsy driver and its minimal filtering... he uses a boo box forbass that can be added later in the room ! Very cheap, I had tried it if Betsy speaker were avaliable here in Europe . Name of the thread is Viral project somethig iirc.
Alpair paper has are famous, the blue paper sounds good a member said to me (oldspkeaker guy that listen to many jazz : so dynamic music)
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I forgot to mention that the Alpair 11ms is extremely good at dynamics and detail with absolutely no need for a tweeter. Its probably a better all around choice than the Alpair 7ms since the smaller driver requires a bigger box anyway. The modified box for the Pluvia 11 that Planet10 is showing above would also be ideal for the Alpair 11ms. This box really isn't all that big given the size of the driver. I am using an SMSL DA-8s class D power amplifier to drive my speakers which is fairly new to the market and few on this forum have probably heard it. This Amp is very dynamic and detailed and particularly seems to like full range drivers. Highly recommended.
Sorry if am late to reply. I would say these were my 3 top full range drivers;
1. Fostex FF85wk. A good all around 3 Inch full range driver. Limited bass.
2. Fostex FE126EN ( Now replaced with the nv version ). I have no idea how the new drivers sound? The older FE126En drivers have a raising response and can get peaky or bright as some people call it. The Drivers for me make up for the lack of levelness in their sound and performance.
3. Fostex FE108EZ Sigma drivers. These little super drivers are a step up from the reg. FE series and I did notice more inter detail and a more smoother top end and a better mid range didn't seem peaky to me and bass seemed more natural. Again bass duties with me light like the rest of the drivers.
I have had older Mark Audio drivers in the past. They Sound Natural but, soft on the highs and the low end is very limited like all small drivers. So I am saving to get the New MS series and see what I find?
I have had Tang Band in the past no issues there. They are well made and are a great company to look at. I have also have Audio Nirvana Super Horn 3 inch drivers. Never listened to them and sold them for my own personal reasons. I hope this helps? Cheers Jeff
1. Fostex FF85wk. A good all around 3 Inch full range driver. Limited bass.
2. Fostex FE126EN ( Now replaced with the nv version ). I have no idea how the new drivers sound? The older FE126En drivers have a raising response and can get peaky or bright as some people call it. The Drivers for me make up for the lack of levelness in their sound and performance.
3. Fostex FE108EZ Sigma drivers. These little super drivers are a step up from the reg. FE series and I did notice more inter detail and a more smoother top end and a better mid range didn't seem peaky to me and bass seemed more natural. Again bass duties with me light like the rest of the drivers.
I have had older Mark Audio drivers in the past. They Sound Natural but, soft on the highs and the low end is very limited like all small drivers. So I am saving to get the New MS series and see what I find?
I have had Tang Band in the past no issues there. They are well made and are a great company to look at. I have also have Audio Nirvana Super Horn 3 inch drivers. Never listened to them and sold them for my own personal reasons. I hope this helps? Cheers Jeff
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