Good evening all. Hope everyone is safe and healthy.
It has been some time since I first dove in to diy speaker building. GRS BOFU clones in something that, I think, were TL enclosures. It's been a long time so that may be incorrect.
Anyhow, I have been toying with the idea of a pair of open baffle speakers, using full range drivers.
Historically, I have run terrified of trying to use x-overs, so my experience and final outcome have been muted by ignorance.
This post will be the first of many questions to come, but it's kind of important.
I would like to keep the size of my initial experiment on the small size.....something on the order of 17-20" W X 25-30"H
I have no clue what driver(s) to use yet, and zero foundational understanding of crossover design.....yet. This research is starting now.
My question is regarding room placement. I envision putting these speakers on the floor at either end of a 20'X14' room with sheetrock over brick walls and a 10foot ceiling, wood floors.
Further, I envision them placed roughly 2 feet from the back wall and 2feet from each side. Generally speaking, is this distance roughly what is needed to experience the speakers open-ness?
Or would they, generally, need to be further into the room?
Thanks in advance. I'm currently reading searches, so hope to find the recommendations for drivers and info on how to actually build a pair that sound nice elsewhere on the forum.
Otherwise, I'll be back with questions I'm sure.
It has been some time since I first dove in to diy speaker building. GRS BOFU clones in something that, I think, were TL enclosures. It's been a long time so that may be incorrect.
Anyhow, I have been toying with the idea of a pair of open baffle speakers, using full range drivers.
Historically, I have run terrified of trying to use x-overs, so my experience and final outcome have been muted by ignorance.
This post will be the first of many questions to come, but it's kind of important.
I would like to keep the size of my initial experiment on the small size.....something on the order of 17-20" W X 25-30"H
I have no clue what driver(s) to use yet, and zero foundational understanding of crossover design.....yet. This research is starting now.
My question is regarding room placement. I envision putting these speakers on the floor at either end of a 20'X14' room with sheetrock over brick walls and a 10foot ceiling, wood floors.
Further, I envision them placed roughly 2 feet from the back wall and 2feet from each side. Generally speaking, is this distance roughly what is needed to experience the speakers open-ness?
Or would they, generally, need to be further into the room?
Thanks in advance. I'm currently reading searches, so hope to find the recommendations for drivers and info on how to actually build a pair that sound nice elsewhere on the forum.
Otherwise, I'll be back with questions I'm sure.
Normally, especially for the lower frequenciesand best imaging, you will need at least 1.5m from any walls, preferably 2m or about 6 feet.
If you want to try OB without breaking the bank, and not bother with XO, the Nola Brio Clones are just about perfect.
Four 3.5" drivers, two sealed and two opened, only solder a small 20uF capacitor to the one in free air, and combine with a sub or two, so you just need the subs plate amp to select the XO and loudness.
Very simple and the easy way to get into this. Here's the thread:
Need help building open baffle/bass reflex hybrid
If you want to try OB without breaking the bank, and not bother with XO, the Nola Brio Clones are just about perfect.
Four 3.5" drivers, two sealed and two opened, only solder a small 20uF capacitor to the one in free air, and combine with a sub or two, so you just need the subs plate amp to select the XO and loudness.
Very simple and the easy way to get into this. Here's the thread:
Need help building open baffle/bass reflex hybrid
Percival has got me thinking....
I once had a subwoofer/satellite system from Crutch field. This was years ago. The sub had the crossovers inside. So lows went to the box, and mids/highs to the sat's.
If I finally figure out my OB situation (driver-dimensions etc.) I would like to try to duplicate the sub/sat configuration.
If I am reading my forum research correctly, there are very inexpensive subs that can take care of the x-overs for me, no?
In other words, I could, hypothetically, build the OB's, and have them crossed over in the off the shelf subwoofer?
BTW, I am looking at some of the new-ish mini amplifier rigs as my power, and using my phone/Spotify as source, for now at least. A decent DAC is in my future too.
I once had a subwoofer/satellite system from Crutch field. This was years ago. The sub had the crossovers inside. So lows went to the box, and mids/highs to the sat's.
If I finally figure out my OB situation (driver-dimensions etc.) I would like to try to duplicate the sub/sat configuration.
If I am reading my forum research correctly, there are very inexpensive subs that can take care of the x-overs for me, no?
In other words, I could, hypothetically, build the OB's, and have them crossed over in the off the shelf subwoofer?
BTW, I am looking at some of the new-ish mini amplifier rigs as my power, and using my phone/Spotify as source, for now at least. A decent DAC is in my future too.
Hello Woodbutcher, Covid 19 obviously has this OB side effect, please search on the thread i started (open baffle or Box) and have a look see, i have learnt a lot, not least that this forum has some excellent competent and generous people subscribed, but also from now reading other threads one occasionally sees less open views so let it run for a bit before concluding on any one responders views!!
I built a couple pairs of the Nola Brio Clones. I used a Voxel DIY sib and am very happy with it. My room isn't as large as yours, so a single Voxel might not be enough. These little clones really surprised me. I was expecting decent sound, but they surpassed decent to my ears.
Voxel - a mini-sub+ -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
Voxel - a mini-sub+ -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
For what it's worth, I used a small baffle step filter on mine as well. They are a good distance from a wall, so no bass support a nearby wall offers. Without it, they were a bit shrill, as might be expected. I also built a pair with Dayton Audio PS95 drivers. I haven't measured or A/B'ed them, but so far I like what I hear.
Dayton Audio PS95-8 3-1/2" Point Source Full Range Driver 8 Ohm
Dayton Audio PS95-8 3-1/2" Point Source Full Range Driver 8 Ohm
Very few fullranges will give reasobale bass on an OB. The Visaton B200 the only (available) one i know of (i do have some unobtainium Korean drivers that do) so an XO and helper woofer are almost mandatory.
MJK’s seminal OB article is a must to get a handle on these. OB Theory
I have worked thru a number of OBs and in the end found them problematic but they do many things really well. And are typically easy builds (at least on the face of it).
dave
MJK’s seminal OB article is a must to get a handle on these. OB Theory
I have worked thru a number of OBs and in the end found them problematic but they do many things really well. And are typically easy builds (at least on the face of it).
dave
Thanks P10....I'm familiar with the article mentioned, but will revisit.
My issue remains utter and complete ignorance of X/O design or implementation, though I absolutely want to at least develop some working knowledge of basic two and maybe three way use .
Hell....my knowledge of vernacular or even just basic theory is sorely lacking. However, I DO know enough to know that it is a lot more than just shoving a driver into a hunk of wood, and see what happens.....though, there is also a fair amount of that too...
My issue remains utter and complete ignorance of X/O design or implementation, though I absolutely want to at least develop some working knowledge of basic two and maybe three way use .
Hell....my knowledge of vernacular or even just basic theory is sorely lacking. However, I DO know enough to know that it is a lot more than just shoving a driver into a hunk of wood, and see what happens.....though, there is also a fair amount of that too...
Given the frequencies involved and the size of the components it is often cheaper to biamp.
dave
dave
I'm building some OB's now and I'm also really not too interested in countless hours of XO tweaking since it's a ribbon tweeter/6" midbass config.
I'm using a miniDSP 2x4..and it's crazy what you can do with it in minutes..change slopes crossover points, polarities, horizontal offset/time align parametric eq.......of course these active DSP crossovers (or analog active crossovers) will require 4 channels of amplification for a pair of 2 ways.
The basic MiniDSP is about $100 depending on where you buy it.
I'm using these with a 12" powered sub..so the sub plate amp does the low pass duties.
I'm using a miniDSP 2x4..and it's crazy what you can do with it in minutes..change slopes crossover points, polarities, horizontal offset/time align parametric eq.......of course these active DSP crossovers (or analog active crossovers) will require 4 channels of amplification for a pair of 2 ways.
The basic MiniDSP is about $100 depending on where you buy it.
I'm using these with a 12" powered sub..so the sub plate amp does the low pass duties.
The mini DSP is something I have been made aware of. Specifically in use with the Linkwitz tube speakers(?) Forget the name, but they are supposed to be pretty exceptional.
I get that the dsp allows a crafting of the sound digitally. XO duties and sound shaping are accomplished with this, no?
The downside...maybe...being that you have to have separate amps for each channel. Or, at least, that's how I understand it.
I get that the dsp allows a crafting of the sound digitally. XO duties and sound shaping are accomplished with this, no?
The downside...maybe...being that you have to have separate amps for each channel. Or, at least, that's how I understand it.
Here are some designs that might fit.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mul...n-inexpensive-ob-project-161.html#post5221647
Cheap and simple Open Baffle (a la MJK)
You can download software from this site and then look for tutorials on Youtube as well.
FRD Consortium tools guide
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mul...n-inexpensive-ob-project-161.html#post5221647
Cheap and simple Open Baffle (a la MJK)
You can download software from this site and then look for tutorials on Youtube as well.
FRD Consortium tools guide
Mike,
That's very helpful. Thank you. I'll dig in there too...looks like a wonderful tool. I'm hopping over to check those threads too...thanks!!!
That's very helpful. Thank you. I'll dig in there too...looks like a wonderful tool. I'm hopping over to check those threads too...thanks!!!
Another good resource for crossover design is the Parts Express Tech Talk forum. They've got a sticky all about designing crossovers for beginners, plus there a lot of guys who like to share info with someone looking to learn.
You don't need an XO for the Nola Brios. You run them as is.
It's on the sub that you would decide where to cut it. Usually around 100Hz with those little speakers.
One sub, at least 8", is good, dual subs are even better as they iron out the dips and peaks nodes associated with deeper bass in a room.
If you get the miniDSP 2x4 HD, then you can also time align the subs to the FR, and add some fir filters as well.
interested to know which and where DSP is good for that price?
Is there similar amp source available, i am considering something like Linwitz and miniDSP and amps seem to be the expensive bit to me.........