Hi all,
I'm about to start putting some passive xo's together for my 1st time.(I've always used digital xo's before but want to learn how to do passives for speakers that I don't want to use 2 or 3 amps per channel for)
Can anyone recommend me some cheap but good brands, and maybe a range of component values that will let me buy a few in so that I have a 'parts bin' to hand if I am experimenting.
I don't mind if they are not the 'best in the world', if my projects end up being successful I'd happily buy more 'audiophile' quality ones.
I usually build with pro drivers / compression drivers if that makes a difference to the power handling of the parts.
Thanks for any help,
Rob.
I'm about to start putting some passive xo's together for my 1st time.(I've always used digital xo's before but want to learn how to do passives for speakers that I don't want to use 2 or 3 amps per channel for)
Can anyone recommend me some cheap but good brands, and maybe a range of component values that will let me buy a few in so that I have a 'parts bin' to hand if I am experimenting.
I don't mind if they are not the 'best in the world', if my projects end up being successful I'd happily buy more 'audiophile' quality ones.
I usually build with pro drivers / compression drivers if that makes a difference to the power handling of the parts.
Thanks for any help,
Rob.
I'd recommend Blue Aran. Sensible prices, decent quality stuff. No esoteric HiFi brands, which I'm happy with but I know others will disagree.
They also sell a wide range of drivers.
Chris
They also sell a wide range of drivers.
Chris
I have had good inductors, caps, and resistors from Willys Hifi over the last year. They have Mundorf power resistors, polyester and bipolar caps at sensible prices. They also have more expensive stuff which you can use once the design is proven.
I had missed Blue Arran so need to have a look there.
I have also used Wilmslow audio, Falcon acoustics, and IPL for parts over the years. They all seem to have sensible prices on inductors. Phone to verify stock and if they don't have the values you want try someone else in the list.
Using professional drivers you may have to think about saturation and to some extent dissipation with inductors and voltage rating of capacitors. I guess you will be looking at air core or high power cores on bass inductors to help prevent saturation.
Power dissipation in inductors and resistors will need to be checked at high drive levels. Again Xsim and Virtuix would help here.
What is the impedance of the drivers you use, and how much attenuation do you typically apply when matching or padding down high frequency levels? as this will define resistors needed for attenuation.
Using Xsim or Virtuix could save you money on components, as they will get you close to the ideal values, which would mean you don't have to buy a full selection covering the range .1mH - 2.5mh etc.
Let us have your thoughts.
I had missed Blue Arran so need to have a look there.
I have also used Wilmslow audio, Falcon acoustics, and IPL for parts over the years. They all seem to have sensible prices on inductors. Phone to verify stock and if they don't have the values you want try someone else in the list.
Using professional drivers you may have to think about saturation and to some extent dissipation with inductors and voltage rating of capacitors. I guess you will be looking at air core or high power cores on bass inductors to help prevent saturation.
Power dissipation in inductors and resistors will need to be checked at high drive levels. Again Xsim and Virtuix would help here.
What is the impedance of the drivers you use, and how much attenuation do you typically apply when matching or padding down high frequency levels? as this will define resistors needed for attenuation.
Using Xsim or Virtuix could save you money on components, as they will get you close to the ideal values, which would mean you don't have to buy a full selection covering the range .1mH - 2.5mh etc.
Let us have your thoughts.
i mainly use Jantzen crosscaps (because they are relative cheap over here) and mundorf and jantzen aircoils, resistors are mostly jantzen cement resistors. In the US you can easely get Solen Fast caps and Dayton cement resistors and Coils, and they are similar good (but harder to get over here). They are all very good and relative cheap and widely availeble. for caps use above 100v (more is not needed but can not harm) and use high power resistors, i mostly use 10 or 20w resistors, even on tweeters.
But the main thing is, polypropylene or polyester filmcaps, aircoils and high power resistors, preferable non inductive ones. Iron core coils and non polarised elco caps can be used, but are less good, especially those elco's (and they go down after time). If you need to safe money on caps, it's better to go to cheap mass market filmcaps like Wima MKP's than to elco's.
I go to sites like Rumoh.eu, intertechnik.de, lautsprechershop.de and i'm looking now more and more at Soundimport.eu but did not buy there yet (but i'll try it next time).
But the main thing is, polypropylene or polyester filmcaps, aircoils and high power resistors, preferable non inductive ones. Iron core coils and non polarised elco caps can be used, but are less good, especially those elco's (and they go down after time). If you need to safe money on caps, it's better to go to cheap mass market filmcaps like Wima MKP's than to elco's.
I go to sites like Rumoh.eu, intertechnik.de, lautsprechershop.de and i'm looking now more and more at Soundimport.eu but did not buy there yet (but i'll try it next time).
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In the past I have used Tout le Haut-Parleur for capacitors (mainly Solen) and IPL for inductors. I have also got parts from the Hi-Fi Collective. Good experiences in all cases.
Alex
Alex
I'd start with handfuls of bi-polar electrolytics. You don't want to be short of values. Just get polys as needed, like when you finish prototyping.
Same for sand cast 5W resistors. You may not need this power for a compression tweeter, but they are versatile and inexpensive.
Unlike the inductors. Maybe get a blend of air and iron cored. Expect to string a few together from time to time. Repositioning an iron core can be a good way to get extra values.
Same for sand cast 5W resistors. You may not need this power for a compression tweeter, but they are versatile and inexpensive.
Unlike the inductors. Maybe get a blend of air and iron cored. Expect to string a few together from time to time. Repositioning an iron core can be a good way to get extra values.
Thanks for all the replies,
I will have a good search through the links etc tomorrow.
Raymondj : most of the stuff I use is 8ohm, usually the compression driver is way above the others in sensitivity but being active I just turn the dial down. Mids are usually around 94 / 99db so after baffle step around the 93 mark I guess. CD's usually around 107 after EQ. So around 12 / 14dB attenuation at a rough guess.
Often I parallel bass drivers to 4ohms. I have a 1.5 way twin 15" in the planning that uses 2x250w drivers with a 4.8uH inductor for the 0.5 way that I need to source.
Cheers,
Rob.
I will have a good search through the links etc tomorrow.
Raymondj : most of the stuff I use is 8ohm, usually the compression driver is way above the others in sensitivity but being active I just turn the dial down. Mids are usually around 94 / 99db so after baffle step around the 93 mark I guess. CD's usually around 107 after EQ. So around 12 / 14dB attenuation at a rough guess.
Often I parallel bass drivers to 4ohms. I have a 1.5 way twin 15" in the planning that uses 2x250w drivers with a 4.8uH inductor for the 0.5 way that I need to source.
Cheers,
Rob.
Consider impedance compensation for your tweeter. Measure it on your waveguide and apply to flatten the peaks around resonance. Set once and forget. These peaks are normally too wild to be successfully worked with otherwise. Even after applying the attenuation you will be left with variations.
Also consider 2and hand crossovers from speakers on ebay. I got 2 massive 3 way KEF crossovers with tons of (admittedly) elco and iron core coils, but they are good to have a choice for initial testing. They also had lots of what seem to be Mundorf mox resistor on them so they were good value.
AllenB's point is a good one. I haven't done any tweeters in a horn, so I have learned a something new there.
Give us a clue on your 15" 8 ohm drivers plus other unit. I assume the manufacturers data is available and then tell us more about your design, then maybe we can suggest a set of values around what would be sensible.
I feel it will be more cost effective doing that.
However, you could start buying all the values of C and L's to give you a working set,
If you start going higher order crossover you may need a at least more than two of the same value inductor and possibly four of the same value capacitors. I hate not having parts available when I want to try something.
The above is an exaggeration I know as you would substitute the nearest value and live with it on the day, or try jiggling the components in the sim.
Please tell us more, we understand two 15" 8 ohm units in parallel by manufacturer x? and a 8/4 compression driver by y? on xxxx type horn?
Give us a clue on your 15" 8 ohm drivers plus other unit. I assume the manufacturers data is available and then tell us more about your design, then maybe we can suggest a set of values around what would be sensible.
I feel it will be more cost effective doing that.
However, you could start buying all the values of C and L's to give you a working set,
If you start going higher order crossover you may need a at least more than two of the same value inductor and possibly four of the same value capacitors. I hate not having parts available when I want to try something.
The above is an exaggeration I know as you would substitute the nearest value and live with it on the day, or try jiggling the components in the sim.
Please tell us more, we understand two 15" 8 ohm units in parallel by manufacturer x? and a 8/4 compression driver by y? on xxxx type horn?
I've used
Lautsprecher Intertechnik - Shop
A number of times.
Very good pricing on basic components.
Lautsprecher Intertechnik - Shop
A number of times.
Very good pricing on basic components.
Hi RaymondJ,
The 1.5 way can be copied off the existing design (JBL JRX125) The 0.5 way has a 4.8mH in series with a 16uF cap in parallel. I have 5 of the jrx drivers to play with hence the interest in the double fifteens. At the moment my time is being taken up by a synergy test box that is in the measuring / tweaking stage. After I get the front chamber size sorted I will start looking into the xo. This is between a pair of 4" mids (8 ohms wired for 4 ohms parallel) and a 1" BMS4550. That will probably be the first passive xo project as I don't want to lose a channel on the DCX just to EQ some tweeters..
Cheers for all the input,
Rob.
Should have added, the 15's are JBL M115 8A's. I've found them to perform really well and they can be picked up cheap used on Ebay.