Drivers that are good enough to leave no practical reason to upgrade in the future. For outright detail and dynamics at moderate volume levels, with enough extension to satisfy most music. Are pro components available that would compete with top consumer products like Excel and Revelator?
FaitalPRO seems to have a number of 12-18 inch drivers with relatively low mms, high Qms, smooth response, and unusually low Rms, such as the 12PR320, 15FH520, and 18FH500. All priced very reasonably if ordered from Europe.
Are these still lacking compared to the best consumer drivers? Are there other examples of exceptional professional components?
Would I be better off forgetting the high efficiency components and going with something like the SB34NRXL75-8?
I wish I could try them all, but spending many thousands on speaker drivers is not feasible.
FaitalPRO seems to have a number of 12-18 inch drivers with relatively low mms, high Qms, smooth response, and unusually low Rms, such as the 12PR320, 15FH520, and 18FH500. All priced very reasonably if ordered from Europe.
Are these still lacking compared to the best consumer drivers? Are there other examples of exceptional professional components?
Would I be better off forgetting the high efficiency components and going with something like the SB34NRXL75-8?
I wish I could try them all, but spending many thousands on speaker drivers is not feasible.
They are not lacking at all, just the lowest frequency range that is missing sometimes, but usually that's worth it even for home use, if you ask me. But they can go as low as 30-35 Hz (or even lower with some models) in an adequate cabinet and tuning if room gain is considered.
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AE Speakers makes some really nice big woofers, but you’re just giving us qualitative requirements and not quantitative ones.
Yep if you mean bass extension then most pro drivers will lose out compared to hifi drivers. Mind you that is what subs are for 😀
fwiw my first few diy builds were based around scanspeak drivers and I've ended up being a pro driver kind of bloke. Maybe its personal preference ? I know I'd choose the 15's in my jbl jrx 115's over the scanspeak 10's I used.
Rob.
btw, Altec 515's should be on your list. They have a great reputation.
fwiw my first few diy builds were based around scanspeak drivers and I've ended up being a pro driver kind of bloke. Maybe its personal preference ? I know I'd choose the 15's in my jbl jrx 115's over the scanspeak 10's I used.
Rob.
btw, Altec 515's should be on your list. They have a great reputation.
I have found PRO drivers tend to be a little lacking in detail at the low level SPL's that is usual in domestic settings, possibly because they need a bit of power behind them to 'open them up'. Typically PRO drivers are designed for high level output and are constructed to rigid standards to survive such an onslaught of power. High level SPL seems to be the fundamental design feature as against clarity of detail.
HiFi drivers for domestic use are usually more refined for detail and clarity.
There are exceptions to the rule of course.
C.M
HiFi drivers for domestic use are usually more refined for detail and clarity.
There are exceptions to the rule of course.
C.M
PRV, Faital, Audax, Fostex JBL,EMS-Fertin, Tad, all coming from PA but match hifi-sound if not better with big Sd and cool efficienty. from cheap to very expensive
I'll second the 515 recommendation, I am using the Iconic version (165-8G) which is a late version 515. Note they are 16 inch drivers.
Having done some measurements on this, I disagree. I found the drivers stay linear (with regards to input voltage vs output SPL) until you're really pushing the limits of what they can handle.
I'd suggest that a lack of perceived detail might be a result of the electronics operating "down in the noise".
Chris
Troels gravesen is a pretty famous guy for doing Scanspeak, SEAS stuff. Of recent he has been doing pro stuff. Can check out his site.
Faital-3WC
Oon
Faital-3WC
Oon
This has been my experience with them as well, though after looking at numerous threads about what makes for exceptional drivers, I can see that the high efficiency speakers I have experienced used very average components.
I'm looking for suggestions of readily available woofers that are the exception to that rule. Extension to 30Hz would be nice, but I might settle for 40Hz to keep enclosure volume reasonable.
The FaitalPRO 15FH520 is looking tempting. It doesn't get that last 10Hz of extension, but it requires half the enclosure size, has a strong motor, low Fs/Qms, and low Rms. Pairs are available for around 500 usd shipped, which is about the limit of what I want to spend for woofers.
I've seen he has several pro-driver based speakers. He stated his recent Loudspeaker 2 was the best speaker he has made by a comfortable margin.
Hoffman's Iron Law is in full effect with those 283L cabinets, though.
At iso cone material, say paper for illustration, what could be the parameters ruling for a PA cone to have less details at low level volume (what spl ?) ?
Directivity due to different Sd between PA & hifi drivers ? - less walls reflection..., ....-
Le : PA having often much bigger Le, voice coil length, so less control of littliest cone motion by the amp ? - BL too big for details - ?
PA is often took by hifists for its bigger Sd + greater sensivity for tubes, but does it means it has less cone motion control at low SPL ? One thing is it also permitts low powered amp à la Nelson Path, less silicon pairs, better matching ?
I forgott also PHL Audio, seen also in mastering studios environment.... so a lot of great PA stuffs on all the planet areas.
Directivity due to different Sd between PA & hifi drivers ? - less walls reflection..., ....-
Le : PA having often much bigger Le, voice coil length, so less control of littliest cone motion by the amp ? - BL too big for details - ?
PA is often took by hifists for its bigger Sd + greater sensivity for tubes, but does it means it has less cone motion control at low SPL ? One thing is it also permitts low powered amp à la Nelson Path, less silicon pairs, better matching ?
I forgott also PHL Audio, seen also in mastering studios environment.... so a lot of great PA stuffs on all the planet areas.
FYI: I've got Faital 15FH520 that I measured fs to be 48Hz and Qts 0.5 and I haven't been able to get them "burn in", which supposedly should move the parameters closer to published. They sound fine though. I don't know if this is normal among all PA drivers or not. I think Troels Graversen published TS parameters of Faital 15pr400 if I remember and they were much closer to factory spec, so I just might have a monday pair.. Also, there seems to be lots of happy faital woofer users. There is a chance that I have made an error since I'm not too experienced but I measured the spec multiple times with different added masses, with and without of high excursion excercise before the measurement and the TS params didn't change much at all. I should measure them again now after a year of use.
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Strange, here is the Faital 12FH520-4 measurements, very close to the datasheet values. And the other Faitals are close too on that site. But that doesn't means there can't be an exception.
FAITAL 12FH520-4 (Woofer 12", 4 Ohm, 1200 Wmax)
FAITAL 12FH520-4 (Woofer 12", 4 Ohm, 1200 Wmax)
FaitalPRO 18FH510 - 18" Subwoofer
this is the one i would put my money.
Indeed these cheap faitals are interesting.
I hope we see soon some diy info from these
be aware xmax is more optimistic for Faital than other brands:
"(4) Xmax= [(winding depth - magnetic gap depth)/2] + (magnetic gap depth/3)"
I prefer the B&C approach of giving the xmax and an 'xvar' value.
"(4) Xmax= [(winding depth - magnetic gap depth)/2] + (magnetic gap depth/3)"
I prefer the B&C approach of giving the xmax and an 'xvar' value.
i dont know about you all but for me one 18" with 5mm is enough.
you can get 3 of those faitals price of one 862 bms
you can get 3 of those faitals price of one 862 bms
At my listening levels, output peaks would rarely exceed 110dB @ 1m, so I agree completely that the woofer will be perfectly adequate with 3-5mm of clean usable excursion
I recently built a pair of single 18 bass-reflex with the 18FH500, the neo version of the 510. (Weight was important, each box weighs only 58 lbs !)
Built to go to 40Hz, and run in a vertically stacked and coupled pair, cone to cone, to reduce vibration. The coupler is a separate piece.
Here they are under a synergy build.
Great driver !
Also have the bms 18n862, that Troels likes so much.
Use it both sealed and bass-reflex. It is a huge uptick from the 18FH500..
