Hi!
Has somebody any experience with the Audio Analogue Puccini amp???
I read about a lot of good things and test and the amp is also very well documented. It has only one "problem": the bass is not enough punchy and dynamically.... (even the S.E. version)
Maybe we could cure this problem with some more bias🙂
Greets:
Tyimo
Has somebody any experience with the Audio Analogue Puccini amp???
I read about a lot of good things and test and the amp is also very well documented. It has only one "problem": the bass is not enough punchy and dynamically.... (even the S.E. version)
Maybe we could cure this problem with some more bias🙂
Greets:
Tyimo
The offtopic post by viktor1986 has been moved to the proper thread, which is to be found here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65175&perpage=10&pagenumber=1
Regards,
Milan
moamps said:
The offtopic post by viktor1986 has been moved to the proper thread, which is to be found here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65175&perpage=10&pagenumber=1
Regards,
Milan
Sorry but I did not think on that link.
Here is link http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=985930#post985930
Please do avoid posting identical posts in different threads. When you think an earlier post of yours is relevant to the current topic being discussed, please just post a link to that particular post (like you have done now), not the entire post.
Most importantly, please do not post deliberately offtopic content in the future.
Regards,
Milan
Most importantly, please do not post deliberately offtopic content in the future.
Regards,
Milan
hello
A very special power amplifier,
by the clever Italian Federico Paoletti.
Audio Analogue amps and Puccini has got very good reviews in the Audio press.
Some info of Puccini.
Puccini uses dual supply.
Uses NE5534 Op-amp input.
NE5534 power supply is bootstrapped and so following the OUTPUT voltage!
This technique is not unknown and Paoletti was inspired by the work of another circuit designer.
This way the op-amp can help put out higher power.
Much more voltage peak, than ~+-20V which is max voltage supply for NE5534.
More info at Federico Paoletti audio pages.
http://www.pi.infn.it/~federico/unofficial.htm
Article about Puccini:
http://www.pi.infn.it/~federico/puccini.htm
lineup
-------------------------------------
I attach schematic of Puccini SE ( special edition version )
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
A very special power amplifier,
by the clever Italian Federico Paoletti.
Audio Analogue amps and Puccini has got very good reviews in the Audio press.
Some info of Puccini.
Puccini uses dual supply.
Uses NE5534 Op-amp input.
NE5534 power supply is bootstrapped and so following the OUTPUT voltage!
This technique is not unknown and Paoletti was inspired by the work of another circuit designer.
This way the op-amp can help put out higher power.
Much more voltage peak, than ~+-20V which is max voltage supply for NE5534.
More info at Federico Paoletti audio pages.
http://www.pi.infn.it/~federico/unofficial.htm
Article about Puccini:
http://www.pi.infn.it/~federico/puccini.htm
lineup
-------------------------------------
I attach schematic of Puccini SE ( special edition version )
Attachments
Hi Lineup!😀
It seems that only you are writing here!🙂
Thanks for the infos, but I know it already. I also posted you about this Opamp tuning method in the Power DAC thread. You know what I mean.....🙂
The first question is:
-Is the bass not enough punchy and dynamically or not???
I know the overal sound is very sweet.
Why nobody cloned them yet?
Greets:
Tyimo
It seems that only you are writing here!🙂
Thanks for the infos, but I know it already. I also posted you about this Opamp tuning method in the Power DAC thread. You know what I mean.....🙂
The first question is:
-Is the bass not enough punchy and dynamically or not???
I know the overal sound is very sweet.
Why nobody cloned them yet?
Greets:
Tyimo
How do you know about the bass sound of Puccini?
We should be a bit careful to judge ,
what somebody says after listening, as the plain truth - or regard this is a fact.
Somebody else may say another thing.
It is a bit personal taste, that can make us say things.
------------------------------------
Yes a clone of Puccini!
There are plenty of improvements I can think of by looking at schematic.
To me it looks like a very old amplifier, if looking at the components.
Already with those 'old-fashion' semiconductors, it has got very nice reviews, even here in my country.
I have an audio magazine in my archives, with great review of Puccini!
Think what good amplifier it would be, if with an upgrade!
I mean:
Power supply:
+-33.5 VDC Without Any Load
Power transformer:
this is a toroidal 150VA, with dual primary (115+115Vac) and
dual secondary (2x50Vac, each one center tapped).
Gives each channel 75 VA, 2x25 VAC.
Input capacitor:
1uF into 39kohm. ( = 39 kohm x uF )
NE5534 ... okay it is not a bad Op-Amp .. but sure are better now!
VBE multiplier:
BC517 a simple darlington TO92
Output:
TIP142, Two TIP147, Darlington Switch transistors 125 Watt/per device
with Storage & Fall time 2.5 uS and rise time 0.55 uS
Only one pair in standard Puccini.
Two pairs! in SE Special Edition
After the selector switch there is a buffer stage, with a decoupling filter (C10/R12) and another low pass filter (R46/C48): the first sets the -3dB point at 1.6Hz, the second at 1.6MHz; the input impedance is 50k.
The out of the buffer (half of a dual TLE2072 op-amp) goes to the tape-out (via R42) and to the volume pot.
Here we have a story: at the beginning (first two or three hundred Puccinis) the pot was a Phier type, but some people reported an unsatisfactory tracking of the two channels; we made some tests, even with some Iskra types, and we decided to change to a more expensive, but more reliable ALPS pot.
---------------------------------------
some data:
Damping factor >100@1kHz/1W/8Ohm
S/N ratio >80dB for Line input
-3dB points are at <10Hz and >100kHz
########################################
Well, anybody thinks could be any improvements? 😀
But would these improvements make a good amplifier be a n even better sounding amplifier?
I think so.
lineup
We should be a bit careful to judge ,
what somebody says after listening, as the plain truth - or regard this is a fact.
Somebody else may say another thing.
It is a bit personal taste, that can make us say things.
------------------------------------
Yes a clone of Puccini!
There are plenty of improvements I can think of by looking at schematic.
To me it looks like a very old amplifier, if looking at the components.
Already with those 'old-fashion' semiconductors, it has got very nice reviews, even here in my country.
I have an audio magazine in my archives, with great review of Puccini!
Think what good amplifier it would be, if with an upgrade!
I mean:
Power supply:
+-33.5 VDC Without Any Load
Power transformer:
this is a toroidal 150VA, with dual primary (115+115Vac) and
dual secondary (2x50Vac, each one center tapped).
Gives each channel 75 VA, 2x25 VAC.
Input capacitor:
1uF into 39kohm. ( = 39 kohm x uF )
NE5534 ... okay it is not a bad Op-Amp .. but sure are better now!
VBE multiplier:
BC517 a simple darlington TO92
Output:
TIP142, Two TIP147, Darlington Switch transistors 125 Watt/per device
with Storage & Fall time 2.5 uS and rise time 0.55 uS
Only one pair in standard Puccini.
Two pairs! in SE Special Edition
After the selector switch there is a buffer stage, with a decoupling filter (C10/R12) and another low pass filter (R46/C48): the first sets the -3dB point at 1.6Hz, the second at 1.6MHz; the input impedance is 50k.
The out of the buffer (half of a dual TLE2072 op-amp) goes to the tape-out (via R42) and to the volume pot.
Here we have a story: at the beginning (first two or three hundred Puccinis) the pot was a Phier type, but some people reported an unsatisfactory tracking of the two channels; we made some tests, even with some Iskra types, and we decided to change to a more expensive, but more reliable ALPS pot.
---------------------------------------
some data:
Damping factor >100@1kHz/1W/8Ohm
S/N ratio >80dB for Line input
-3dB points are at <10Hz and >100kHz
########################################
Well, anybody thinks could be any improvements? 😀
But would these improvements make a good amplifier be a n even better sounding amplifier?
I think so.
lineup
Hi Lineup!
Thanks for your high quality answer!
It is getting more interesting.
What about to crank up the bias?!? Getting closer to class A??
Tyimo
Thanks for your high quality answer!
It is getting more interesting.
What about to crank up the bias?!? Getting closer to class A??
Tyimo
AA Puccini SE
I have used the Puccini SE before and found it very good musicaly and designed almost to the taste of valves.
One mod I did was changing the output fuses with good quality ones and found to be more dynamic.
If you look at Federico's site, there is an amp called Aria which he designed the same as Puccini but with little changes in resistors to suite a different presentation. Perhaps you could write to him(as I have before and he is such a nice person) and ask him of his opinion on how to further improve the amp.
Cheers.
I have used the Puccini SE before and found it very good musicaly and designed almost to the taste of valves.
One mod I did was changing the output fuses with good quality ones and found to be more dynamic.
If you look at Federico's site, there is an amp called Aria which he designed the same as Puccini but with little changes in resistors to suite a different presentation. Perhaps you could write to him(as I have before and he is such a nice person) and ask him of his opinion on how to further improve the amp.
Cheers.
Tyimo said:
Tyimo said:
Hi,
Cranking up the bias only ever improves things if its too low.
For most amplifiers there is an optimum bias point, too much is bad.
The bass quality of an amplifier is affected by the details of
its layout and the way it is built, not just the circuit diagram.
Describing a circuit as not having tight bass - not sensible.
🙂/sreten.
Hi Sreten!
Yes, you are right, but I didn't say it has not enough bass. I was asking about it, because I read some tests where the author wrote the "bass not enough punchy and dynamically..."
Greets:
Tyimo 🙂
Yes, you are right, but I didn't say it has not enough bass. I was asking about it, because I read some tests where the author wrote the "bass not enough punchy and dynamically..."
Greets:
Tyimo 🙂
How many schematics resp. revisions there are at whole in use?
I want to have version of the PCB Rev. 4.3 - 3/00.
Who can upload this?
Best thanks in advance.
I want to have version of the PCB Rev. 4.3 - 3/00.
Who can upload this?
Best thanks in advance.
Anyone responding to the previous post if this is copyrighted material you may NOT upload it. Redrawn schematics are fine however.
what is the best currently available op-amp in this unusual application ?
Are here to observe other rules when choosing, as is the case with common applications such as gain stages ?
If not, I would try the AD797.
From reading the website article about this amplifier (written by the designer) I remember he mentioned a few ways to improve performance. One that I remember simulating in LTSPICE was increasing C133 and C134. Wima MKS2 capacitors at 10uF would probably be a good choice. You could also swap the darlingtons for a standard EF output stage and use better drivers and outputs.
The main "trick" with this amplifier is that the supply rails to the opamp shift according to the output signal. The principle is described here https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/application-notes/AN-1593.pdf
Hi Folks,
Instead of opening another thread about the AA amplifiers I just put that info here so it's easier for anyone in the future to find it.
I have just received a Puccini SE which has had a previous repair on one of the output channels but that works more or less fine.
I can confirm some lack of authority in the bass, the mids and ups on the contrary sound pretty bright and forward (think cymbals).
I contacted Federico (VERY nice guy btw) and he told me I should perform the cap upgrade as indicated on his website.
So the caps are on order, and just for the heck of if I ordered a tube of Sanken 2SD2390 / 2SB1560 each.
I might give the Powersupply some uF as well as modern capacitors with the same pitch and diameter are available in higher values.
The designer upped the uF in the Poweramp design, so should not hurt.
Schematics attached for those interested.
Instead of opening another thread about the AA amplifiers I just put that info here so it's easier for anyone in the future to find it.
I have just received a Puccini SE which has had a previous repair on one of the output channels but that works more or less fine.
I can confirm some lack of authority in the bass, the mids and ups on the contrary sound pretty bright and forward (think cymbals).
I contacted Federico (VERY nice guy btw) and he told me I should perform the cap upgrade as indicated on his website.
So the caps are on order, and just for the heck of if I ordered a tube of Sanken 2SD2390 / 2SB1560 each.
I might give the Powersupply some uF as well as modern capacitors with the same pitch and diameter are available in higher values.
The designer upped the uF in the Poweramp design, so should not hurt.
Schematics attached for those interested.